[Feedback] RNG should leave (29.04.2016 UPDATE)

"

allbusiness wrote:

You're clearly not getting the point.


The economic centric focused design of D3 is the main reason why people hated it. Path of Exile has a very similar economic centric focused design and yet everyone here praises it, the same people who shit all over D3 on it. The only reason why is because of the existence of an auction house, which we almost virtually have here with premium stash tabs and poe.trade. It shows a clear and fundamental lack of game knowledge and awareness when you do shit like that.

If I want to play a phys damage wand character I should be able to. Without having to spend an inordinate amount of time versus someone whose running Shock Wave Totems and loling at tier 12+ maps with a fucking Tabula.

I'm sorry i just don't agree with what you say. It seems to me you either don't play PoE for that long or are salty for another reason. Look at the game description.

Comparing the 2 is just not fair. They are nothing alike. The AH in diablo compared to trading in PoE? Trading in PoE is a game by itself, enjoyed by many. You are free to go selffound if you don't enjoy it. Or just play like i do, with minimal trading. You are the only one forcing yourself to apparently become a trading tycoon. It's not the game, it's you.

"

allbusiness wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

@allbusiness

D3 didn't have an intentional economy centered design. Pretty much any report from Blizzard devs will indicate that, at the time, they believed only a tiny fraction of players, less than 10%, would use the AH. Pretty much every D3 1.0 design decision was made assuming self-found. Pretty much everything that happened with D3's economy was unintended and accidental.

That's fact, dude, whether you like it or not, and as bizarre as some of D3 1.0's decisions may seem from a self-found perspective.

PoE was very deliberately designed to have the economy play a major role.

It's not even whether it was intentional or not. It's the fact that an economic driven game is going to end up like this no matter what, where RNG reigns supreme and trading is going to be the most efficient way to progress. Now you're just dragging this conversation off to avoid the fact that you and I both know economic driven games end up sucking major ass for the most part. 50% of D3 players were using the auction house. How many players do you think end up trading in PoE? Probably the same amount if not more. So instead of actually playing the core aspect of the game, you end up having all these players trading more then anything.

Certainly not 50%; 50% of PoE players don't make it past Normal Brutus. And you have to get pretty serious to know about poe.trade, and as I said you're not pushed hard to sell until mid-tier maps or so. So it's hard to say, but I'd guess under half of players who've made it to Merciless or beyond.

And only a tiny fraction of those trade more than they play.

I understand what the OP is saying.

It's very easy to say "RNG is RNG" and use that to justify the outcome, no matter what it is.


But in this game there is the "lucky" who 6L a dozen or more items every single league and regularly get T1 drops, and then there are the "unlucky" who never get anything.

Being on the unlucky side I can't vouch for the lucky ones, but never finding anything and I end up feeling like a Hobo wandering the dumpsters of Wraeclath looking for pop bottles, it gets old.

Current league has been a breath of fresh air with a chance to actually buy some stuff with Cadiro, but we are being told that is a one tine thing and it goes back to the same old same old next League.


Something is "odd" about the distribution of drops though and I don't know what would be worse, an intentional "lucky" vs "unlucky" bit or just buggy programming.





Cause something is wrong. When you have a fortunate few with 100's of "lucky" drops and a mass of folks with "nothin" then there is a problem with distribution of those drops, intentional or not.

"

RockGod wrote:

But in this game there is the "lucky" who 6L a dozen or more items every single league and regularly get T1 drops

word ?
who are these guys who 6L a dozen or more items in few fuses (I assume you meant that they get lucky fusing, not get lucky acquiring fuses) and regularly get t1 drops ?

people who grind 12 hrs a day (Im assuming op is one of them) gain enough currency to get fuses and have few t1 drops, arent really *lucky*

"

grepman wrote:

"

RockGod wrote:

But in this game there is the "lucky" who 6L a dozen or more items every single league and regularly get T1 drops

word ?
who are these guys who 6L a dozen or more items in few fuses (I assume you meant that they get lucky fusing, not get lucky acquiring fuses) and regularly get t1 drops ?

people who grind 12 hrs a day (Im assuming op is one of them) gain enough currency to get fuses and have few t1 drops, arent really *lucky*

I never said dozen or so items in a few fuses, I said over an entire League. League after League.


Lots of streams have shown folks getting 2 or 3 6L's back to back, not sure the value of searching and linking them. The streamer usually announces they are trying for a 5L then start laughing when they get a 6L and then pee themselves when it happens again.

[edited] so I'll link an example, guy gets 3 6L's in under 5 minutes -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp6pyBEeKs4

That's an example of "lucky".

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

@allbusiness

D3 didn't have an intentional economy centered design. Pretty much any report from Blizzard devs will indicate that, at the time, they believed only a tiny fraction of players, less than 10%, would use the AH. Pretty much every D3 1.0 design decision was made assuming self-found. Pretty much everything that happened with D3's economy was unintended and accidental.

That's fact, dude, whether you like it or not, and as bizarre as some of D3 1.0's decisions may seem from a self-found perspective.

PoE was very deliberately designed to have the economy play a major role.

I remember them saying that. But they were either lying when they said that or even worse devs than they appear to be. Moving up in difficulty was basically impossible without using the auction house. Going from normal to nightmare to hell to inferno, every time you made the transition enemies would start to wreck you unless you completely switched out your gear with gear bought on the auction house. Especially for inferno where white zombies would kill you in one hit. They even admitted later that inferno hadn't been tested at all before release.

"

RockGod wrote:

I never said dozen or so items in a few fuses, I said over an entire League. League after League.

then your statement is meaningless. someone who has 30k fuses will have more 6linked items than someone who has 3k fuses, over the long run. in fact, I guarantee anyone with 4500 fuses can have 3 6Ld items kappa.

"

Lots of streams have shown folks getting 2 or 3 6L's back to back, not sure the value of searching and linking them. The streamer usually announces they are trying for a 5L then start laughing when they get a 6L and then pee themselves when it happens again.

[edited] so I'll link an example, guy gets 3 6L's in under 5 minutes -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp6pyBEeKs4

That's an example of "lucky".

first, this streamer (mano) played standard.
second, sure he gets lucky here. but he has 3k fuses when he starts 6linking. I asked for someone 6linking a dozen or so items though in a temp league, not 3 (and getting lucky). again, he has 3k fuses to start with in the first place and uses about half of that. he could vorici 6l two chests right there.

your argument is just one big hyperbole that doesn't make much sense. you don't get 'lucky' over the long run.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

"

allbusiness wrote:

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

@allbusiness

D3 didn't have an intentional economy centered design. Pretty much any report from Blizzard devs will indicate that, at the time, they believed only a tiny fraction of players, less than 10%, would use the AH. Pretty much every D3 1.0 design decision was made assuming self-found. Pretty much everything that happened with D3's economy was unintended and accidental.

That's fact, dude, whether you like it or not, and as bizarre as some of D3 1.0's decisions may seem from a self-found perspective.

PoE was very deliberately designed to have the economy play a major role.

It's not even whether it was intentional or not. It's the fact that an economic driven game is going to end up like this no matter what, where RNG reigns supreme and trading is going to be the most efficient way to progress. Now you're just dragging this conversation off to avoid the fact that you and I both know economic driven games end up sucking major ass for the most part. 50% of D3 players were using the auction house. How many players do you think end up trading in PoE? Probably the same amount if not more. So instead of actually playing the core aspect of the game, you end up having all these players trading more then anything.

Certainly not 50%; 50% of PoE players don't make it past Normal Brutus. And you have to get pretty serious to know about poe.trade, and as I said you're not pushed hard to sell until mid-tier maps or so. So it's hard to say, but I'd guess under half of players who've made it to Merciless or beyond.

And only a tiny fraction of those trade more than they play.

A. That number is because most of said players are probably bots created by Chinese farmers for item selling.

B. Under half is hilarious. Both old D3 and PoE are economic driven and centric games. In D3 half of the active playing population used the auction house regularly.

C. Only a tiny fraction trade more than they play. K. Try everyone that is trying to fund their mapping expeditions. Oh, you wouldn't know that because you've never actually mapped.

"

鬼殺し wrote:

Also, I think it's fair to say at this point that the OP, from this thread and many others, just wants PoE to be something GGG don't want it to be. Fighting that is futile. PoE is entirely too successful as a double combo roulette wheel/trading sim to see that change anytime soon.

All you are doing is banging your head against a wall here, TreeOfDead. Just am I doing so trying to tell you that.

Reduce RNG, increase deterministic factors? Yes. And I say that as someone who has put not one but two crafting recipes into the game.

Remove RNG altogether? Don't be stupid.

PS. You mean Korean MMOs, not Chinese. Most popular MMOs in China are either Korean or derivative of the Korean MMO model.

I just find it funny someone who plays the game as much as him and makes that much currency can even complain about RNG to begin with.

He uses methods that require no RNG in order to create a currency base, then flips, afterwards he proceeds to complain about RNG as if he isnt making enough currency as is.

To me hes bitching because he just wants to make even more currency. RNG is directly related to your wealth when it comes to crafting, making crafting rng easier puts more power into the hand of those who have the money to do so.

Edit - And it was already made easier via master crafting. He has level 8 masters, he shouldnt be bitching about RNG with crafting at all.

@allbusiness
I'm saying only a small fraction of Merciless-or-later players run mid-Tier maps. Trading or not. And most of the mid-tier maprunners still farm more than trade.

It genuinely feels like you're just unironically throwing strawman after strawman at me. And I don't mean in the typical sense of strawmanning opposing arguments, but that you're strawmanning your own.