[Feedback] RNG should leave (29.04.2016 UPDATE)

RNG in PoE one of the worst type of RNG, close to Chinese MMO or even worse.

Corrupted today x15 3lvl Empower, x12 Explosive Arrow, x3 Increased Burning Damage and few mixed 20/20 gems and got 1 21/20 gem, zero 4lvl empower, many lost level, lost quality, other just corrupted with no changes. <= That was today.   Wasted 4000+ Fusing, stopped roll maps while leveled to 100 as it never work, Corrupted x34 T13 maps and no Vaal Temple, wasted so many orbs trying to craft some gear, never seen T1 unique drop for 4 years even tho i play a lot and has few MF char, and more happens to my char on that league. I claymed it to

RNG one of the worst, bad and unfair thing PoE has.
PoE heavily based on RNG and this should be changed.

6 linking = RNG, 6 Socket = RNG, 5 linking = RNG, 21/20 = RNG, "craft" in PoE = super RNG, drop = RNG, everything based and orienteered on RNG.
And this make HUGE gap between "lucky" or more like manually fixed by GGG or GM and "unlucky" also fixed by GGG or GM. This is not fun or interested in any case: you farm few months to "craft" and if you "unlucky" you just wasted for nothing there months, want to 6 link your main item and was "unlucky" you lost that build and end up as bankrupt, you want vaal your empower and level tonnes of them with "unluck" mode made by GGG or GM you lost your time for no reason.

RNG absolute in PoE and the best would be if RNG leave or at least nerfed. We still have no real craft, no real use for orbs that just feed no purposely but pure RNG and we got tonnes useless mods that add nothing but make harder roll/craft everything, no progress but RNG bullshit that only make some "lucky" win game and easy mode and "unlucky" lost everything and start again "grind" like Chinese or Korean MMO.

We don't play ARPG or something, PoE more like Chinese or Korean MMO will full of gold farmer that use some sort of programs like bots or hacks. Maybe change it? Reduce gap between "lucky" and "unlucky" so it would be more fair and more players could just PLAY THE GAME! GGG should learn that games is not for time wasting, games should be interested in the subject and give positive emotions and fun. If player farm so hard for his any goal then let him achieve this goal, its easy. Right now PoE more like trading simulator and huge heavily pro trade orienteering game that don't punish traders at all, when absolutely punish players who try to craft. And this gap HUGE. Trading in PoE got so much power that it makes game looks like MMO or simulator stock exchange.

I learned my lesson = no and never craft in PoE again, as GGG or GM make me 99% time "unlucky" with everything: map drop, craft, 6 link, vaaling items/gems, chance uniques, drop items, E.T.C.

____________________________________


RNG based system has problem, as stated before - it WILL screw up most people and helps few people. Win/Loss in this system absurdly high and insane, theres no space for fun at all.
Crafting right now is RNG based. There's no guarantee to anything in which case you'll find yourself going into the gambler's fallacy sooner or later. And even when it comes to master crafting, some things are simply not attainable OR super weak and bad roll, such as Chaos resistance on items and spell damage on Necklaces. You cannot craft top tier affixes, you cannot craft Chaos Resistance, spell damage on necklaces, etc. These things are unavailable outside of anything except pure RNG and mod pool insane big to actually try it, WAY too much useless shitty mods that just fill the role of being mod that noone wanted and make craft even more harder.
If RNG is lowered and crafting/finding items thus buffed = more players COULD and WILL craft, and it will be more like ACTUAL craft feels then pure wasting orbs. It will be more usage and more fun to roll yourself then safe it for trading.
Reducing a lot of the RNG and giving people tools to craft and other stuff where RNG heavily focused, make players to play the game and stay longer in game. Buff and increase masters mods available to make masters more useful and worthy, it will helps to control RNG and help crafters. More players would try to craft, more will be happy with craft (if craft would be huge buffed and all trash shitty mods leave), more SSF players will play longer as they could UPGRADE their gear for higher maps and harder mods/new content like atziri and uber for SSF, more players will start to USE exalted orbs and other currency, more win/win situation then BIG LOSS/INSANE BIG WIN as we have now. And theres more good point to do it.

Reduce RNG, increase deterministic factors! More vendor recipes would be awesome, add more crafting recipes into the game. Gave us GOOD and USEFUL TO EVERYONE recipes (not the same as vaal orb recipe that no one use as its bullshit), buff masters and remove useless mods (like life regen and similar).

If all useless bad mods would be removed from game, then we dont need "smart drop" to make player feel higher content as new fresh player and and casual player as-well and it helps SSF players.




"
johnKeys wrote:
I've been saying this for years: RNG has usage. roles. dosage.

you don't put too much RNG in a place where this much randomness simply does not belong, like crafting.
unless of course you really do enjoy messing with your players, and making them feel like nothing they do gameplay-wise means anything, or want to shoehorn them all into a certain online shopping mall.

but at the same time putting too little RNG in a place where it does belong - like layout generation - can make things kind of boring.

PoE is suffering from severe overdose.

it doesn't mean RNG "should leave" the game altogether.
it means RNG should be where it should be, shouldn't where it shouldn't, and just the right amount.

"
Vhlad wrote:

You can't rely so much on RNG. It kills lifetime customer value. The big gaming companies that have been around for decades layer in deterministic reward paradigms. They add safety nets to limit RNG outcomes within a desired standard deviation. And they have the analytical data to prove such practices are optimal in the long run, when it comes to retention, future purchases, satisfaction.

I'm not sure how GGG missed something so fundamental. You need to focus on the individual player experience, not just the statistical aggregate expected outcome.

"
鬼殺し wrote:

Tone down the extreme proliferation of RNG elements and the biased odds, yes. Definitely. Your chances of "winning" every time you spin a PoE roulette wheel are depressingly low. Enchantments were just sadistic. Flat out sadistic.

"
Chalcon wrote:
Let me restate what you are trying to say: "The gap between unlucky and lucky is massive in this game". What does that mean?

Well, the problem is that because of the way probability works you have a small chance to get completely fucked. This is because the way it is implemented is overly simplistic:

Let's assume each fusing has a 1/1000 chance to make a 6-link. Then on average it takes you 1000 fusings to get a 6-link. However:

- You have an 18% chance to get a 6 link in less than 200 fusings - 18% of people will be insanely lucky.

- You have a 5% chance to not have a 6 link after 3000 fusings - 5% of people will be insanely unlucky.

GGG could easily fix this by removing the top end, so if you spend e.g. 1300 fusing on an item you have a greatly increased chance to get a 6link.

"
allbusiness wrote:


Is it possible for you to actually play the game so you actually know what you're talking about in the first place? You have no semblance of what it actually takes to sustain maps past a certain point, nor do you even understand how some characters are virtually impossible to play without certain pieces of extremely rare gear. Anyone can play a meta build from day 1. I'd love for you to somehow try and play a physical damage wand character solo self found. Have fun with that.

Many of the things you've suggested/stated comes from a person that has little to no high level gameplay experience. At all. Just because you are relatively articulate doesn't mean you actually have any idea of what the fuck you are talking about. You have to trade constantly and flip currency constantly if you are going to solo fund your mapping expenditures past Tier 10 maps. Between Chaos Spamming, Zana Modding, Corrupting, etc. you have to trade otherwise you will never realistically have enough currency to push maps. Period. There's a reason why most people run higher tier maps in groups; it's because the cost to run them becomes so exponentially high that you have to split the cost otherwise you'll go broke otherwise.

And lastly, no. The biggest and most major complaint of D3 was the fact that it was an economy centric game, and that everything was balanced around it. It's funny that many of the same people who criticized the horrible drop rates (which were put into place because of the existence of trading and the auction house) are also the same people who defend trading and rng in PoE. Goes to show that most people actually have no fucking clue what they want, nor do they know what they are talking about. So to answer your last question, yes. Making trading the most optimal path of progressing particularly in endgame scenarios is a bad move. It's the same reason why everyone hated D3 in the first place, so why the fuck would you have the same thing here.

"
allbusiness wrote:

The economic centric focused design of D3 is the main reason why people hated it. Path of Exile has a very similar economic centric focused design and yet everyone here praises it, the same people who shit all over D3 on it. The only reason why is because of the existence of an auction house, which we almost virtually have here with premium stash tabs and poe.trade. It shows a clear and fundamental lack of game knowledge and awareness when you do shit like that.

If I want to play a phys damage wand character I should be able to. Without having to spend an inordinate amount of time versus someone whose running Shock Wave Totems and loling at tier 12+ maps with a fucking Tabula.

"
Frattagli4 wrote:
i came here as a gamer, i became a trader....

"
鬼殺し wrote:

Reduce RNG, increase deterministic factors? Yes. And I say that as someone who has put not one but two crafting recipes into the game.


"
RockGod wrote:
I understand what the OP is saying.

It's very easy to say "RNG is RNG" and use that to justify the outcome, no matter what it is.


But in this game there is the "lucky" who 6L a dozen or more items every single league and regularly get T1 drops, and then there are the "unlucky" who never get anything.

Being on the unlucky side I can't vouch for the lucky ones, but never finding anything and I end up feeling like a Hobo wandering the dumpsters of Wraeclath looking for pop bottles, it gets old.

Current league has been a breath of fresh air with a chance to actually buy some stuff with Cadiro, but we are being told that is a one tine thing and it goes back to the same old same old next League.


Something is "odd" about the distribution of drops though and I don't know what would be worse, an intentional "lucky" vs "unlucky" bit or just buggy programming.





Cause something is wrong. When you have a fortunate few with 100's of "lucky" drops and a mass of folks with "nothin" then there is a problem with distribution of those drops, intentional or not.

"
Tsokushin wrote:
As a new player, with a fully public profile, and who has paid into the game because I liked the gameplay mechanics when I started, the RNG needs to be toned WAY down.

It's starting to get ridiculous when I'm attempting to see what all the endgame has to offer only to be shut down because RNG didn't give me a necessary 6l in all the fuses I've used. Worse yet, it's asking for an exorbitant 1500 fuses to actually make one, one which would take literal ages to farm yourself. This doesn't even take into account that for the best of my current build, I'd need a solid 4-5 blue sockets, which for some reason it's been decided that str armor should lower the chance of it being applied. Even using the Vorici 2 or 3b for the past 60 times (resulting in over 2k loss in chroms to date) has been nothing but arduous.

To make matters worse, because I was investing my currency into trying to get a 6 linked, 4-5 blue sockets strength based armor, I'm now on the verge of being broke, so now I cannot even buy much anything. This means that all the currency I acquired towards this end has resulted in absolutely nothing. Right now, it's not the actual difficulty of the t14-15 bosses themselves that stop me, but rather RNG because it prevents me from progressing.

Then there's the actual trading. I'm still new and I have no idea what anything is truly worth, but for one thing, Trade chat is full of people trying to charge you an arm and a leg compared to what you'd find on poe.trade. Now, when I log in, I'm spending a good portion of my damn time tabbed out of the game trying to price my stuff to sell instead of actually playing the game. This is stupid.

All of you people pandering to RNG have never worked with your hands in real life. Have never dug holes, built anything, honest work. There is no RNG to any of that. It's all careful, planned, all the difficulty is in the execution, and it's all equally rewarding compared to the work put in. Honest work. Where the reward is in direct comparison to the amount of work or skill you had to display.

And before you state "why don't you put work into trading" I mean work actually playing just the damn game, going out, fighting stuff, exploring maps, etc.

I'm not saying RNG on combat mechanics needs to be removed, that's at least understandable. But RNG when it comes to crafting and drops needs to be adequately addressed. If I kill one of the most difficult t14-15 map bosses, I should have something to show for it. If I have a reasonable amount of Chromatic Orbs, then I should be able to color it successfully the way I need it.

This game is damn well hard enough with the fact that some builds (close range) are just doomed to fail or have it harder mechanically than other builds without having to fight RNG itself so that I'm able to perform.

"
fusurugi wrote:
I think any random implementation on our IT systems is unfair.
This is because it is all pseudo random numbers, not real chaotic numbers because the hardware has only a limited number of states, narrowing it down drasticaly.


"
tostie wrote:
The amount of variance in rng in this game is extreme. You can put all your efforts towards something for a year and never get it. I think it's too much and playing the same cheap but effective build every league gets old because it's the only build you get to play. But your mileage may vary. I'd like to see less extreme variance in results so crafting is feasible instead of laughable.


"
johnKeys wrote:
I've been saying this for years: RNG has usage. roles. dosage.

you don't put too much RNG in a place where this much randomness simply does not belong, like crafting.
unless of course you really do enjoy messing with your players, and making them feel like nothing they do gameplay-wise means anything, or want to shoehorn them all into a certain online shopping mall.

but at the same time putting too little RNG in a place where it does belong - like layout generation - can make things kind of boring.

PoE is suffering from severe overdose.

it doesn't mean RNG "should leave" the game altogether.
it means RNG should be where it should be, shouldn't where it shouldn't, and just the right amount.
Affliction master craft service Affliction My IGN TreeOfDead
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2037371 Vouch
Affliction veiled crafting all service all crafts mods
Affliction SC master craft service Affliction SC craft mod!
Veiled crafting Service Affliction craft PM: TreeOfDead
Last edited by TreeOfDead on Apr 28, 2016, 1:38:19 PM
Last bumped on May 27, 2016, 2:13:26 PM
This thread has been automatically archived. Replies are disabled.
You don't play RNG to win you play RNG to lose.
https://youtu.be/T9kygXtkh10?t=285

FeelsBadMan

Remove MF from POE, make juiced map the new MF.
@goetz playa you high

RNG is the yang. The economy is the yin. It's a core part of the game's design, meant to smooth the edges of otherwise pure RNG. It is intentional that players get social when they encounter excessive streakiness.

Also, the only rational reasons to craft are:
1. The item is unavailable for trade, or the only available items are controlled by sellers who are behaving irrationally
2. You know a cheaper crafting method than what everyone else knows
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Apr 22, 2016, 10:11:09 AM
+1

Spoiler
do not misplace your faith in RNGesus, he isn't real
if there would be a even more determined outcome than now, i would totally lose against players with no real life beside poe.

also, how do you design a arpg with no random outcome, which is equally providing a ever challenging gameplay for people playing it 2h/day an 20h/day?

i'm really interested because the only idea i can come up with, is taking away all their progress/items on character death to reset their progress in certain intervals.
age and treachery will triumph over youth and skill!
Last edited by vio on Apr 22, 2016, 10:57:09 AM
There is only one challenging aspect left of this game and it's RNG. Take it out and I m done with this game for real
With enough rolls, randomness becomes certainty. So the only thing you need to remove RNG is more dice.
"Into the Labyrinth!
left step, right step, step step, left left.
Into the Labyrinth!"
Would be fastest way to destroy game, poe is all about rng
Funnily enough, any addition that removes part of rng from game is highly praised by playerbase (masters, voricis bench, vendor gems, and now cadiro)
"
vio wrote:
if there would be a even more determined outcome than now, i would totally lose against players with no real life beside poe.

also, how do you design a arpg with no random outcome, which is equally providing a ever challenging gameplay for people playing it 2h/day an 20h/day?


One guy work 2h/day and second guy work 20h/day on same office and same profession , i clearly can see that they both should have same salary, 100% agree with you.

You run few easy relaxed maps and get same wealth that i get for 20h hard working farm, absolutely correct and i think this is one of most fair decision from GGG and you.

Well, to be honest, after i trashed so many vaals and gems (special empower) with NO outcomes or return i just lost all interest in game, all fun was burned today thanks to GGG or GM guy who turned my RNG to "unlucky". I'm not blind and can see how much currency, items, uniques, 6 links dropped to others (streamers, friends, guildies, players who im party with, etc) and what dropped to me, and i can say that i always get 20% or lesser that other get in same time and same map. For example, we 4 man party and run 100 maps, after collecting all drops i can say this is statistics. And same happens in any league, always.

When i saying hard work i mean it, i'm do lots of recipe that i know and wiki have, do lot of farm, trading and flip, my master craft service that helps me, friends help and support that still help me to play this game, learn from all source in forum, sites, chats to get more info that will help me get some wealth. I really work for it and NEVER, not ONCE i get something useful or good from drop or from craft. 4 years no lifer and not even once light on my side like many people got for few months or days. Always hard work and learning, trading, etc boring stuff. I want to play the game, i dont want to do there stuff, but my RNG not allow it.

If i has my RNG set to "lucky" and got lots of good moment like 6 link items with 6 fusing, carto box on T12 with 10+ red maps, perandus archive on T15 with tonnes red maps, something else to make me happy as player and other there "lucky" moment i would never complain about it, but it never happens NEVER. You dont even know what it is and how it drives away and ruin ALL mood to play PoE. Bad RNG or "unlicky" mod makes you see no real drop, no real craft, no socket or link anything, no maps, nothing at all... i still playing only bcs there is a few ways to skip Bad RNG or "unlicky" mod: like trading, flip, help from guild and friends, recipe, cadiro guys who cant afford it and sell it to me, and i am tired and bored from it. I want to PLAY, not this shit.

So, i think you right about 2h/day and 20h/day should have same equally = nothing, 100% with you.
Affliction master craft service Affliction My IGN TreeOfDead
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2037371 Vouch
Affliction veiled crafting all service all crafts mods
Affliction SC master craft service Affliction SC craft mod!
Veiled crafting Service Affliction craft PM: TreeOfDead
"
challenging aspect left of this game and it's RNG


I don't understand. How could RNG be a challenge?

Report Forum Post

Report Account:

Report Type

Additional Info