[Feedback] RNG should leave (29.04.2016 UPDATE)

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

^ Has level 8 masters, apparently doesnt understand how to use them still.

"Rng should be more controllable" masters do exactly that, yet here you are still complaining. If anything the argument should be balancing masters around solo play and not group play but that has yet to be mentioned by you.

Face it, you just want to make currency sitting around doing practically nothing like youre already doing.

don't know if OP mentioned Masters, but I did.
they are balanced around trade, not even group play... I'd be happy if they were balanced around *anything* "play" tbh.
how many Zana mods can you apply to maps as self-found? how many times can you use a meta-mod?

but you know, the real change will come when we change terminology: when we stop "making currency" and start "farming for crafting materials". then use them as crafting materials, not neccesarily as dollar bills (although that would still be an option because Trade should stay as a feature) and certainly not as Dice.

I consider myself a pretty heavy trader and i use orbs for crafting all the time. This perandus league i used thousands of chaos, alts, fusing, jews, chromatics etc exactly for the reason you just mentioned. I even used 20 exalts to craft with aswell. Maybe your playstyle is the cause of your problems, but then again, don't handicap yourself? If you do, then don't complain.

"

johnKeys wrote:

they are balanced around trade, not even group play... I'd be happy if they were balanced around *anything* "play" tbh.
how many Zana mods can you apply to maps as self-found? how many times can you use a meta-mod?

but you know, the real change will come when we change terminology: when we stop "making currency" and start "farming for crafting materials". then use them as crafting materials, not neccesarily as dollar bills (although that would still be an option because Trade should stay as a feature) and certainly not as Dice.

Exactly this!

How many times can we use 2c for a Zana mod? Each map, every time to progress and level up, special when map has deadly insane mods already and 2c add nothing but more chance to die, 3c next to useless shit after 2c that add 20%Quant and nothing else, wheres useful mods? Oh, its 8c cost Zana mod that where it is! So cheap and so much nerfed.

Same with everything, orbs stacking for trade bcs we cant use them for craft and i used much more then most who post there and who no good result.

Most hate comes from fanatics and trolls, like Tin_Foil_Hat and co, but everyone else agree on that fact listed in my Open Post.

"

TreeOfDead wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

they are balanced around trade, not even group play... I'd be happy if they were balanced around *anything* "play" tbh.
how many Zana mods can you apply to maps as self-found? how many times can you use a meta-mod?

but you know, the real change will come when we change terminology: when we stop "making currency" and start "farming for crafting materials". then use them as crafting materials, not neccesarily as dollar bills (although that would still be an option because Trade should stay as a feature) and certainly not as Dice.

Exactly this!

How many times can we use 2c for a Zana mod? Each map, every time to progress and level up, special when map has deadly insane mods already and 2c add nothing but more chance to die, 3c next to useless shit after 2c that add 20%Quant and nothing else, wheres useful mods? Oh, its 8c cost Zana mod that where it is! So cheap and so much nerfed.

Same with everything, orbs stacking for trade bcs we cant use them for craft and i used much more then most who post there and who no good result.

Most hate comes from fanatics and trolls, like Tin_Foil_Hat and co, but everyone else agree on that fact listed in my Open Post.

Im a troll because im pointing out your flawed copy paste comments ? lol'd

If you don't like RNG, don't play RNG :)

- Don't craft yourself --> Trade for the stuff you want.
- Don't expect a godly unique to drop --> collect lesser orbs and sell them for ex's, then trade for the item you want.
- Don't expect high map drops or don't spend too much currencies to craft them --> play the maps you have with minimal crafting (alt/augment them or alch them and gogogo).
- Check the forums/reddit/youtube regularly --> Get richer by knowledge instead of waiting for luck/RNGsus.
- Etc...

"

FNX_Heroes wrote:

If you don't like RNG, don't play RNG :)

- Don't craft yourself --> Trade for the stuff you want.
- Don't expect a godly unique to drop --> collect lesser orbs and sell them for ex's, then trade for the item you want.
- Don't expect high map drops or don't spend too much currencies to craft them --> play the maps you have with minimal crafting (alt/augment them or alch them and gogogo).
- Check the forums/reddit/youtube regularly --> Get richer by knowledge instead of waiting for luck/RNGsus.
- Etc...

So, just trading? Ok, why not delete useless stuff from game like acts, monsters, items, like everything and change name to "stock exchange" so we dont waste time on useless stuff like playing the game and having fun.

"

TreeOfDead wrote:

"

FNX_Heroes wrote:

If you don't like RNG, don't play RNG :)

- Don't craft yourself --> Trade for the stuff you want.
- Don't expect a godly unique to drop --> collect lesser orbs and sell them for ex's, then trade for the item you want.
- Don't expect high map drops or don't spend too much currencies to craft them --> play the maps you have with minimal crafting (alt/augment them or alch them and gogogo).
- Check the forums/reddit/youtube regularly --> Get richer by knowledge instead of waiting for luck/RNGsus.
- Etc...

So, just trading? Ok, why not delete useless stuff from game like acts, monsters, items, like everything and change name to "stock exchange" so we dont waste time on useless stuff like playing the game and having fun.

You aren't talking about actually playing the game, you're talking about getting better equipment for your character. Which is also what he's talking about.

I'm talking about actually playing the game. Don't worry so much about trading or have great stuff drop for you. Instead

stop

fucking

getting

hit.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

You aren't talking about actually playing the game, you're talking about getting better equipment for your character. Which is also what he's talking about.

I'm talking about actually playing the game. Don't worry so much about trading or have great stuff drop for you.

But my point was that we cannot craft ANY gear, even with small and weak mods on low levels we cannot and have not any craft system, ONLY option GGG gave us = trading.

Trading absolute, trading only option, trading required by game and mechanic, trading so much important that GGG balanced everything around it, not anything else, PoE has nothing to RPG as only role we can clearly play - trader.

You dont want to craft your gear yourself? I mean little more like SSF (but not necessary to be forced play solo). I want to craft my own gear and be proud of it, but as we have now system and mechanic its absolutely impossible, we dont have any option to do so WITHOUT trading.

For example, i burn around 12k alts, augment, no idea how many regals/scourings and not get two T1 mods (useful one, not resists or stun one). My best combo was T2 + T3 mods and useless resist on weapon. And what if i dont have so much alts and regals, i would got nothing and this WAY too much punish to any player that respect his time. We have no craft mechanic at all, only gamble and trading. Also i never got any good or useful to me RARE gear that was dropped from monsters i killed, not even once for 4+ years, i think this is not normal to the game that balanced or should be around killing mosters (ARPG). Trading way way way too powerful and important, you cannot play normal build without it (unless as i mention in my Open Post you was flagged as "lucky" from GGG or GM).

Re-read my post as it clearly about actually playing the game.

No offense to you, i understand your opinion and get it, but we talk about different stuff.

I already 100% know that someone from GGG or GM reduced my drop, flagged me to "unlucky" and not allow me to play as other "lucky". And that system gave too much to "lucky" one and nothing (literally nothing) to "unlucky" as me.

Oh, you're edited in quotes that you agree with. That is so cute. Lol.
That is how you push your agenda. No wonder GGG doesn't take forums seriously. :/

It's about avoiding the involvement of rng. Not trying to control it.

"

johnKeys wrote:

I've been saying this for years: RNG has usage. roles. dosage.

you don't put too much RNG in a place where this much randomness simply does not belong, like crafting... but at the same time putting too little RNG in a place where it does belong - like layout generation - can make things kind of boring.

PoE is suffering from severe overdose... it doesn't mean RNG "should leave" the game altogether.
it means RNG should be where it should be, shouldn't where it shouldn't, and just the right amount.

... indicates snip.

I've been thinking about this for a while, because, quite frankly, this is probably the most level-headed jK post ever, and it is a good implied question: what is the proper role of randomness is game design?

I've come up with two completely different functions. The first is random content generation, which is stuff like layout generation; the purpose of RCG is to automate the creation of content in such a way that the players enjoy more high-quality content than designers could hand-design themselves. The second is random arbitration, which is determining the result of a player action at least partially through randomness; the purpose of random arbitration is to make a game less like chess, make it so the exact same skill input doesn't always have the exact same outcome, so going against stuff "harder than you" sometimes results in a win. Basically, random arbitration is deliberate unfairness designed to increase fun.

If you really need someone to explain why random arbitration is good, try playing without it. I dare you. But here I can agree too much is a bad thing.

Both of these are good types of randomness in my book, but it's worth noting that the former, not the latter, is the most important to Path of Exile. The entire point of the map system is to deliver content. Why, then, does it seem map affixes are designed from a random arbitration perspective, rather than a random generation perspective?

Even with items, I feel it's healthier to look at it from an "items as content" perspective than as the result of player action. The cycle of ARPGs is "kill stuff, get upgrades, repeat," so in a way the upgrades are just another part of that content cycle. Under this view the player action is properly evaluating the item-based content and choosing the best ones to equip/trade/stash/vendor.

Food for thought.