Game needs Eternals back (and here's why) |Petition|

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Tanakeah wrote:

Personally? I think Eternal Orbs were fine, but the real issue was that mirrors should have never existed

I think eternals/mirrors are fine for any short term league and bad for long term leagues. While you have at least the chance to get decent gear in a temp league with both orbs... they were produced to fast in perma leagues with endless supply. The problem can't be solved at the current state of the game and won't be solved because of previous mistakes... even if they add new tiers which make old mirror stuff unattractive... this just gives a bitter taste. GGG fucked up long time ago and I think if they keep this structure of balancing both leagues the same way it just gets worse...

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Boem wrote:

Anu pretty much covered the crafting subject with his post though, mid -> semi top tier have never been so easy to craft as a result of the removal of eternal's and the sub-sequentially introduction of masters and their bench crafting mods.

Don't think you are right here... at least not completely. Not the removal of eternals has enabled bench crafting... the change in price from et->ex changed this. If the bench cost remains like it is now and eternals were never removed there were no problem for people like Anu (ssf) nor people that trade. nvm not gonna change anyones mind on this topic, we are all dinosaurs ^^

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trav_dawg wrote:

I just do not understand all these eternal haters... Eternals do not have the potential to negatively affect temp leagues (unless they are being duped at obscene rates). In perm leagues the 6t1 perfect items already exist. There is no downside. The only legitimate downside people have presented is "waahhh I'm poor and can't have fun with eternal so nobody else should either!"

I don't hate eternals. I actually made a thread about redesigning them rather than removing them, and reddit suggested a lot of stuff about that. Thing is that disagree with the stagnation that perfect items bring to the game (because there is less reason to loot stuff because a perfect item exists). Right now there are few 6T0 items out there, and with future expansions it should be literally impossible to get perfect items, and the existents will be depreciated.

The eternal-mirror thing affects temporal leagues because items from there get dumped on standard, and there is the whole RMT thing. I don't know how bad are the effects but they exist. It's a philosophical, not an economical problem.

Jealousy and Greed are two things that must be balanced in any economy. Too much jealousy and you'll get an eat the rich mentality. Too much greed and you'll get a fuck the poor and weak mentality. Both are undesirable.

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Tanakeah wrote:

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You still haven't renamed this thread to what it's actually about?

What does it matter to you or to anyone else? If people want to see what the thread is about then they should read it and do a little bit of brain power computing for themselves to see what is 'actually about' instead of being spoon-fed everything.

Naaa.

It's all about what he wants, not what the GAME needs. Thread titles should reflect the contents.

Grant you're making it clear you haven't read a thing in here. Save yourself embarrassing yourself further. I've made valid points and all you can do is sling mud and accuse me of having a hidden agenda. I'm not changing the thread name because it is what it says. If you can't be bothered to read before flinging your poop like a monkey please move along.

Not to mention that the argument: "that's just what you want", is pretty much always true when fighting for personal beliefs.

I remember my first year in uni, one of the first times i was at the library buying books for my classes, i got into an argument with this high ranking person in the medical industry about the future of the human race and to which extent we will be able to extend human life by replacing body parts by synthetics. My stance was pretty much that while it is good to research in it we will never achieve immortality and will never be able to replicate the brain, and that it was equivalent to the search for immortality or the holy grail - a search that ultimately will be in vain.

We had an intense discussion about that, and i was young then so i was far more inexperienced in arguing so at one point he told me that i just said what i said because that was what i believed in. I didn't know what to answer. I was completely surprised by that and felt i had "lost" that one in the eyes of onviewers, even though i knew i was right.

So, we both bought what we came for, the librarian thanked us for the enlightening conversation, he gave me his card in case i wanted to enter the industry and we went on our ways.

When i came home i realized.. yes.. yes he was right, but he did exactly the same, in fact everyone do the same. Therefore what he said was completely irrelevant, a little trick(although i don't think he realized that himself).

It is the same with this thread. Of course you argue for something you believe in, something pertaining to you and where you come from, but everyone do exactly the same so saying that to make you shut up is no different from saying: "shut up i am right", which is a silly and worthless reply.

Those comments are almost always irrelevant, so you can freely ignore them.

Thank you for removing eternals!
Do NOT bring them back.

voted.

As has been stated multiple times the reason the Mirror/No Et system doesn't work is because mirrors never get used in temp leagues.

I crafted this in Warbands:



Highest ES on standard or Warbands at the time. No one bothered mirroring it, and I knew that it wasn't likely to get mirrored going in. I exalted the 2 resists and hybrid ES/stun for fun.

The #1 bow in Warbands got mirrored like 4 times. That was probably the only thing that got mirrored there. So out of 100-500 mirrors found in Warbands less than 10 were used.

Those of you who argue that Mirrors create incentive to craft, it's just not true based on evidence.

Eternals create incentive to craft because you can actually achieve items whose power reflects the amount of time you invested into acquiring the crafting materials.

Mirrors are irrelevant to temp leagues, and bad for standard. If mirrors were removed and eternals re-introduced the incentive to craft wouldn't be as high as it would be with both present, but it would be higher than in the current system, at least in temp leagues.

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MatrixFactor wrote:

Eternals create incentive to craft because you can actually achieve items whose power reflects the amount of time you invested into acquiring the crafting materials.

No, you can actually achieve items whose power reflects several times the amount of time you invest into acquiring the crafting materials.

You will be getting the eternals for what? 2ex? 5ex? And using what? 100? 200?

Yet the eternal orb drop rate was ~50 times rarer than that of an exalt. OK, sure, if it took you 400,000 hours to get the eternals and craft the item (based on the drop rate of eternals and using 200). 400,000 hours of nothing but killing monsters, 110 years at 10 hours per day, OK the item you crafted reflected the amount of time you spent.

That's the problem. Chris explained the problem. Eternals were allowing people to craft too strong items too quick. Because trading allowed it, the eternal orb which they severely lowered the drop rate of after internal testing because of its power, continued to be too powerful because it could be bought at a fraction of the cost its power and rarity dictated, because the peons who found them had little say in how much the crafting lords paid. Hand it over for peanuts or use it, not much point in using it, need more than 1, take the 4 cents in the dollar for the lottery win or get nothing.

Chris is avidly against binding, he's avidly pro trading, refusing to cage the beast, insisting on feeding it while it lived, he had little choice but to kill the beast he had unleashed.

Really, though, it's interesting how cheap Eternals were for their rarity. I don't think it was any big secret that Eternals were immensely powerful, so if the choice was sell cheap or no sale, why didn't more people choose the no sale option? Chris mentioned that people were using them as they found them; was he implying people were using them suboptimally, because they were refusing to sell them? If so, why weren't Eternals hoarded to a greater extent than they were?

None of this is GGG's fault, of course, and I don't want Eternals back, but I really do wonder why Eternals were so undervalued in terms of market prices.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Really, though, it's interesting how cheap Eternals were for their rarity. I don't think it was any big secret that Eternals were immensely powerful, so if the choice was sell cheap or no sale, why didn't more people choose the no sale option? Chris mentioned that people were using them as they found them; was he implying people were using them suboptimally? None of this is GGG's fault, of course, and I don't want Eternals back, but I really do wonder why Eternals were so undervalued in terms of market prices.

The only people interested in purchasing them was a small % of the whole population. Which imply's they can dictate their buying price.

And since you can reasonably assume those players (top wealth) know market tricks and how to play an economy, i am going to assume they exploited exactly that knowledge early in the eternal release.

An orb with utility (exalt) is more potent for a non-top-wealth player then that eternal.

Peace,

-Boem-

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

Really, though, it's interesting how cheap Eternals were for their rarity. I don't think it was any big secret that Eternals were immensely powerful, so if the choice was sell cheap or no sale, why didn't more people choose the no sale option? Chris mentioned that people were using them as they found them; was he implying people were using them suboptimally, because they were refusing to sell them? If so, why weren't Eternals hoarded to a greater extent than they were?

None of this is GGG's fault, of course, and I don't want Eternals back, but I really do wonder why Eternals were so undervalued in terms of market prices.

Pretty sure he meant they were sold as soon as they dropped. And used as soon as they were bought.

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Boem wrote:

The only people interested in purchasing them was a small % of the whole population. Which imply's they can dictate their buying price.

And since you can reasonably assume those players (top wealth) know market tricks and how to play an economy, i am going to assume they exploited exactly that knowledge early in the eternal release.

An orb with utility (exalt) is more potent for a non-top-wealth player then that eternal.

Peace,

-Boem-

There's also that the price they first brought (amid ignorance of rarity) then gave a flawed perception of rarity. I'll never forget the posts from crafters asking GGG to up the drop of eternals because them being twice as rare as exalts was silly. I pointed out how far off they were every time but was laughed at.

I stumbled upon a reddit post by [can't remember his name, the Belgian streamer dude] by accident a bit back where he tried pointing out that eternals were a lot rarer than people thought, citing me as his source. This was like not too long after their introduction but long enough that a bot like myself had put some thousands of hours in and was comparing at the time a self looted 100+ ex and only 1 eternal. He'd wrongly took that as a guestimate 100:1 ratio. I had at that time set a minimum of 20 times rarer and possibly as high as 80 times. It came out quite a long time later that they were indeed ~50 times rarer and the community still were surprised.