Game needs Eternals back (and here's why) |Petition|

Same reason people sell mirrors for severely less than what their power and rarity would dictate.

Extremely rare currency items will always be worth less than their actual rarity, because very few people have the money to buy them, making it a buyers rather than a sellers market. And statistically, for those selling them (i.e. those who found them), even at severely under value their sale value will represent a significant fraction of their in-game wealth. If you have 4 Exalt and a Mirror, do you sell the Mirror for 220 Exalt or do you keep it as a trophy?
Remove Horticrafting station storage limit.
Last edited by Char1983 on Feb 9, 2016, 2:44:01 PM
I'd put the Mirror in a shop thread for 1200 600 Ex, and if it never sold I'd be just fine with that. Maybe I'd even use it eventually.

Edit: actually, you can only fit 600 Exalts in a trade screen, so 1200 isn't really feasible. Edit 2: Another reason it would be nice if Divines were worth more than Exalts; I'd price at 600 Divines then. :p
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Feb 9, 2016, 3:05:33 PM

See my edit on previous page.

Early ignorant valuation then gave a false impression of rarity.

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Char1983 wrote:
Same reason people sell mirrors for severely less than what their power and rarity would dictate.

Extremely rare currency items will always be worth less than their actual rarity, because very few people have the money to buy them, making it a buyers rather than a sellers market. And statistically, for those selling them (i.e. those who found them), even at severely under value their sale value will represent a significant fraction of their in-game wealth. If you have 4 Exalt and a Mirror, do you sell the Mirror for 220 Exalt or do you keep it as a trophy?


And this.

Which is why the balancing of the orb via decreased drop rate on release (they were 50 times more common on internal servers), when Chris realised their power in exalt crafting, could never have worked and I'm amazed they didn't know this.
Casually casual.

Last edited by TheAnuhart on Feb 9, 2016, 3:22:35 PM
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TheAnuhart wrote:

No, you can actually achieve items whose power reflects several times the amount of time you invest into acquiring the crafting materials.

You will be getting the eternals for what? 2ex? 5ex? And using what? 100? 200?

Yet the eternal orb drop rate was ~50 times rarer than that of an exalt. OK, sure, if it took you 400,000 hours to get the eternals and craft the item (based on the drop rate of eternals and using 200). 400,000 hours of nothing but killing monsters, 110 years at 10 hours per day, OK the item you crafted reflected the amount of time you spent.


How do you measure an item's power?

These shields allow me to kill uber atziri in 9minutes:



If I was able to use eternals to finish crafting them I would spend probably 100ex and my uber atziri kill time wouldn't change by more than 5 sec.

It's also funny to see you guys saying that drop rate should dictate price. Clearly that's not true, and hence you shouldn't use rarity as a measure of power...
All my builds /view-thread/1430399

T14 'real' clearspeed challenge /1642265
Last edited by MatrixFactor on Feb 9, 2016, 3:26:49 PM
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Tanakeah wrote:


Well, let's be honest here, if you made a request for you think the game needs, there's going to be some bias in it because you're going to include what you want in it. Even if it just a little bit and nothing you would consider 'personal' it's going to be there regardless, so I hardly see the problem here.

Personally? I think Eternal Orbs were fine, but the real issue was that mirrors should have never existed. I get why GGG thought they were a good idea, but they didn't think of the long-term ramifications of letting people pretty much 'legally dupe' items. One could even argue or say that because of the way mirrors work that GGG LIKED the idea of 'illegal duping' back in Diablo II and they could have even participated in it in some fashion, but they wanted it in their game in a more 'clean' fashion. All speculation of course and a little tangent, but you get the idea.

As far as Eternal Orbs, I really have to question whether GGG really understood what it meant to introduce those into the game and through their stubbornness of refusing to even consider 'Bind on X' options, they created a maelstrom that they couldn't control. Wouldn't be the first or last time to say the least, but even if Chris 'disagrees' it doesn't mean he is right. Eternals could have easily been in the game with the caveat that any item that they are used on makes the item BoA (Bind on Account) and thus cannot be traded amongst players. If the item is mirrored, then it also mirrors the BoA status so the copies can never be traded either. It then creates a choice:

Do you want an item that can be 'perfect and god-tier' but only you can use it? Or, do you gamble and try to 'craft' something that is sellable on the market and maybe so good that it is mirror-worthy? It's odd because that is exactly in line with GGG's philosophy of players making choices and trade-offs, but sadly because of their refusal to change and consider that perhaps their stances are wrong in the first place, they lose out on such opportunities to further their goals.


I agree with what you've said here
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MatrixFactor wrote:
It's also funny to see you guys saying that drop rate should dictate price. Clearly that's not true, and hence you shouldn't use rarity as a measure of power...


That's not what was said at all. There are many things that dictate price.

Chris said that they realised eternals were too powerful with exalt crafting, before they released them.

They naively balanced them by rarity. But that never was going to address the issue.

It's precisely because rarity doesn't solely dictate price that the balancing measure failed, that eternals were still too strong and why, as I said, "you can actually achieve items whose power reflects several times the amount of time you invest into acquiring the crafting materials" because you can circumvent the time factor and pay a cost that no where near reflects it.
Casually casual.

Last edited by TheAnuhart on Feb 9, 2016, 4:04:00 PM
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trav_dawg wrote:


Grant you're making it clear you haven't read a thing in here. Save yourself embarrassing yourself further. I've made valid points and all you can do is sling mud and accuse me of having a hidden agenda. I'm not changing the thread name because it is what it says. If you can't be bothered to read before flinging your poop like a monkey please move along.


Your agenda isn't hidden. It's pretty easy to see what you want and why. But it isn't for the greater good of the game.

Would you accept having Eternal orbs back, but with Mirrors or the ability to mirror-dupe removed? Or accept some level of item binding? Removal of some of the abusable master mods?

Because that's what it would take to get them back in.

'Having it all' was the thing that initially led to GGG feeling the need to pull the plug. When & if (huge IF) they come back, you can be assured that the method you were previously accustomed to using will no longer be available. It was broken. (with the way mirroring works, still is broken IMO)

By the way, thanks for taking the time to compare me to a monkey. Classy stuff.
tbch, I'm still a bit perplexed at how Eternals came and went, now that it's been long enough to look back.

The thing that keeps getting me stuck is that GGG primarily wanted them to be used to save socketing costs. There was/is a big problem where you have one gg 2h weapon or body armour, it's currently 5L holding your main skill linkage, and you want to get the 6L. You can jeweler/fuse it, but the second you touch it, you've lost the 5L and are ~70jewelers/~150 fuses away from where you started.

So sure, create an Eternal orb, make it about as rare as 70j/150f, and relieve the tension. Imprint the item, start grinding 6s/6L. Either hit 6s/6L, 6s/5L, or give up and smack the imprint back down, unhappy, but still able to function and go back to farming.

Past that, it's useful for saving rare chrome layouts as well, which becomes worth the eternal usage once you get 5/6 off-colors.

So... wtf does any of that have to do with affixes? It seems completely thrown in and unnecessary to the original intention.

Worse than that, it was blindingly obvious that et+ex crafting was going to be the way to generate 6T1 rares from the second they were introduced. Did GGG really underestimate the people that play the game?

---

I'd love to see an Eternal-orb-for-socks/links/colors be brought back. There's enough interesting economic- and gambling-design space for it to breathe. It's certainly more interesting than Blessed Orbs when 90% of items have fixed-range implicits, for example.

As for bringing them back in the "saves affixes" form, I definitely disagree and the OP's bias is blindingly obvious.

GGG has a great stance on wanting people to work their way up through various rares, and doing so also slows the pace down heavily by requiring each intermediary step to be 5/6L and colored (to the tune of 1-few exalts per).
I'd rather see entropy for sockets/links.

Something that natively bakes in progression, Blizzard style. RNG with a limit.
Never underestimate what the mod community can do for PoE if you sell an offline client.
@pneuma

I've been asking for an orb to save socket configurations for ages, an eternal only for sockets, "chromatic memory orb" or whatever.

Also i would like to see a vendor recepi to transfer amount of sockets/links from one item of same slot to another(doesn't work for tabula ofc), consuming the original in the process and producing randomly colored sockets in accordance with the new item base. Because you can't use orbs to get sockets on items when leveling without wasting it since then you can't use new items since they lack sockets. That may be much harder now since they introduced ways to get these stinking 6L's from tempests, lockboxes and whatnot, i don't even know what happened with all that since i don't play league, before that i had only hardfound 1 six linked myself.

I would also add that if eternals are not to be reintroduced, amount of affixes in game shouldbe brought down so that it can be practically possible for players to acquire items in the 92%+ perfect catagory at all, which was almost entirely impossible before as witnessed from the lack of the new mirror level items before eternal was in game.

Just like drop rates, they have so much in game that we cannot access because it isn't practically possible, so much further we can go that we are not using the full gear progression of the game. It has no logical basis it's like it was not thought out and leave players confused and discouraged.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
Last edited by Crackmonster on Feb 9, 2016, 4:04:36 PM

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