Excited about subclasses, but Juggernaut is laughable

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

If Juggernaut is the best they can first come up with for PoE's version of the mighty Barbarian, it's very, very sad. Compare all the other keystone sub class nodes vs Juggy and tell me why the hell you would pick any of the Juggy's over Duelist.

https://imgur.com/a/wzWFm

Seriously, I wouldn't even consider wasting a skill point on any of the Juggy's nodes, Duelist kills him by far. Since the 2 classes are so similar in location and functions, why would you start Marauder instead of Duelist and having Fortify or 100% spell block if you want a huge meaningful boost to defense? If not defense and you want more melee damage, Shadow is obviously far and above everything. Not likely Marauder will have a Fortify node since it's reserved for Duelist or insane crit that Shadow has, so what's left for the Marauder? Insane armor buffs and stun effect crap that has little impact and nobody gives a fuck about?

Unstoppable - We have flasks and movement skills EDIT: OK this might be the only exception, since it provides frozen immunity and lesser chill
Undeniable - Trivial to say the least
Unbreakable - Why? Unwavering stance
Unflinching - The trend of getting one shot in this game is never going to end, so a 10% to get a charge with IC nerfed to hell... does what exactly?
Unyielding - Thanks for the leftover scraps from the Fortify bin
Unrelenting - 5% reduction with the one shot, powerful crit mechanics that we eat, wow that's YUUUGE /s

Really a bad start for showcasing Marauder subclass, I doubt the next 2 will be any better since Duelist has taken the cream of the crop already.

Are you serious? Its one of best show Ascendancy.

1000 accuracy is huge, it free sulfix on rings, amulet, helm and gloves especialy for critical based characters, its huge!!!
All abouth that class is huge, move speed when witches spawn will else lock you in place when you usig cyclone its huge.
Cant be stun bonus from cyclone stop when your skill stop so you can go from imune to stun to stun locked, huge pain bit not more.
Endurance charge when hit, free micro menagment of loot of skills and even give +1 endurance charge its huge. Have i mentioned duble armor?
Serious players will see this as a real power wher some meta popular bilds will rush for Raider for low invesment and other will experiment whit fanky classes wher some will trie to make OP Inquisitor wort wile.
Util we see what else is offered i think you need to look realy good what actauly mather in the end of the day.

I absolutely agree. Of my Marauder builds, not a single one would take the Juggernaut path over Gladiator, Assassin, or Raider. 1000 accuracy is really nice, but it's not too difficult to overcome accuracy problems, even as a marauder (just takes a bit of wealth). All the other nodes just seem lackluster when compared to the nodes of all the other ascendancy trees. They're strong yes, but they're not Ascendancy strong.

I really don't get the hype for unstoppable. Yeah, you can run temp chains and chilled grounds maps without the incredible annoyance of temp chains and chilled ground, but both of those have always been manageable. Also, I don't remember the last time I've had problems with being frozen. Since the new flasks give immunity to status ailments during their uptime, status ailments have become a non-problem for everything not CI or low life.

Unbreakable is really good, but only if you've got some crazy chest armor. And even still, as someone that has 30-50k armor when he pops a granite (depending on auras), an extra 10-15k isn't going to do much.

One extra endurance charge is also nice, but it's not Ascendancy nice. +1 endurance charge is worth two passive points on the regular tree, pretty meager compared to 100% spellblock or 10% multi and .5% base crit per power charge. Also, 10% for endurance charge on being hit is pretty terrible way for charge generation. Even when you're built tanky as shit, the goal is still to not get hit.

Unrelenting and Unyielding are both trash for ascendancy nodes. Those are what I would expect to see from notables in the regular passive tree, not something in an ascendancy tree.

Lastly, offense has always been the best defense in this game. It would be nice to see a few more offensive bonuses coupled with juggernaut to give it that super-OP feel that comes with all the other subclasses.

on a second thought jugger looks somewhat viable for some crit builds using CI or armor/ES. then the extra attack rating, protection against freeze amd increased stun trheshold would make more sense but if that where to be the case then templar would be a better base not marauder.

marauder tend to have high HP so freeze and stuns arent a problem and picking unstopable just for temp chains /chill ground on a few maps seems a waste of a skill


personaly when i think of a juggernaut i think on keystones like:

-increased str and or keystones that scale with str
-decreace enemy block/avoid chance
-knock back and or stun
-increased size and +weapon range
-increased effects of warcry gems

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Caustic2 wrote:

I really don't get the hype for unstoppable. Yeah, you can run temp chains and chilled grounds maps without the incredible annoyance of temp chains and chilled ground, but both of those have always been manageable.

Skipping these maps is not what I would call "manageable". ^^

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Unbreakable is really good, but only if you've got some crazy chest armor. And even still, as someone that has 30-50k armor when he pops a granite (depending on auras), an extra 10-15k isn't going to do much.

It is the other way around. ^^ Thanks to this you don't need granite flasks anymore (when wearing a decent AR).

I still think they will add some interaction between Unstopabble, Izaro's claw (dont remember the name, but it gives +100% phys dmg while frozen) and Berek's Pass (+5000 Armor while frozen). If they add a way to get yourself freezed reliably in 2.2 (like a mod who gives you vulnerability to cold related elemental alignments and a unique that converts phys damage taken into cold damage), then Juggenaut would have some broken mechanics.

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666lol666 wrote:

Skipping these maps is not what I would call "manageable". ^^

Neither of those mods are an automatic skip for any build though... You only skip them because they're annoying, but if you happen to roll them on a damn good map, you're not going to reroll (or at least you shouldn't). They're manageable.

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Marlexyz wrote:

I still think they will add some interaction between Unstopabble, Izaro's claw (dont remember the name, but it gives +100% phys dmg while frozen) and Berek's Pass (+5000 Armor while frozen). If they add a way to get yourself freezed reliably in 2.2 (like a mod who gives you vulnerability to cold related elemental alignments and a unique that converts phys damage taken into cold damage), then Juggenaut would have some broken mechanics.

play CI and pretty much everything with a cold attack will get you frozen, then again would make more sense as a templar subclass than a marauder one.

So 100% increased stun threshold, is that 2x the amount of % of max HP damage that you'd get in order to be stunned? How does this work for HP and CI characters?

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caboom wrote:

on a second thought jugger looks somewhat viable for some crit builds using CI or armor/ES. then the extra attack rating, protection against freeze amd increased stun trheshold would make more sense but if that where to be the case then templar would be a better base not marauder.

marauder tend to have high HP so freeze and stuns arent a problem and picking unstopable just for temp chains /chill ground on a few maps seems a waste of a skill


personaly when i think of a juggernaut i think on keystones like:

-increased str and or keystones that scale with str
-decreace enemy block/avoid chance
-knock back and or stun
-increased size and +weapon range
-increased effects of warcry gems

Juggernaut worst class that ggg show to us.
check templar class with less damage defense, check free penetration, check free pierce, free crit and multi, other super broken nodes.

jugger super bad and useless.

Idk whast rong whit you people, you think some one will play Mourader if duelist have difrent starting nodes?

Ther is a reson things are as they are, its caled balance, its not like you can take all best of what ever you chose, its still a limit of only 6 points outh of 12.
They may look cool but you cant have it all.

Now think how many uniq or mods you can have on many items just by geting free 1000 accuracy?
Thas a huge number, i got a build thats starved for accuracy i spend 3 sulfix only on accuracy, its a huge invesment not to mention you need 100% + accuracy from nodes to even have 88% chance to hit on level 90.

Duble armor bonus for chest is aplayed after all % so its huge bonus making itemisation realy esy.

All i see here is omg free fortify, so what else can you pick after you spend point on fortify? All thos bonuses are limited by 6 points you can spend so think abouth what is actualy beneficial.