Why don’t we remove trading altogether?

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

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majesw wrote:

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

You dont seem to play slots very often. Rarely do you get something out of it. Besides, you dont put anything into it other than time, you dont "pay" for the item drop. You just do the same boss over and over until you are lucky.

And You cant compare D3 to POE, its the same genre, but not the same approach.

I rarely get anything from a boss drop. Time is money to most people... And I can compare D3 to a cactus if I really want to.

Time is money if you are paid to play or earn money while you play. Unless you RMT there is only time invested here, not money to be lost or made.

I personally find my time to be pretty valuable. Sorry that we disagree.

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majesw wrote:

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miljan wrote:

You can easily follow in a new league how many people actively play the game in few first days (later it become problem as people will reroll characters). And as the ladder is filled full in first day, you can easy see that it has minimum of 15 000 active players on the league (probably a lot more but we can not get the number that easy later in league). But when you go to the trading forum after few weeks you will see few thousand threads made. And they will not even be 1/3 of active player base for that league most of the time. And thats why I say minority. And not even all of them like to trade, I even made a trading thread that was after league end moved to standard, or better said HC trading forum, and be sure that I hate trading.

Be careful with how you use this example to represent trading in PoE...
Yes, not even one third of the player base hosts shops. But these players are simply the base for the League's economy. They are not the entirety of it. These players supply the rest of the league with items. They are the "business owners". Almost every player trades for something as the league goes on. I wouldn't hesitate to say that well over 75% of players participate in the economy.

The original poster is asking that this system be completely removed. It doesn't matter if you hate trading or not. The reason Diablo 3 can go self found is that their item system and character building system have almost zero diversity. They can write an algorithm that figures out what items you need and have the game drop them for you.

How many people participate in the economy we don't know, nor how many of them like doing it (as I said I was one of them, and I for shure didnt like it). But people that like trading, as we are talking here about are the ones that will be selling items and flip flopping them and making threads. And for those people we have numbers, and they are not that good.

Self found doens have to do anything what type of item system a game has. You dont need to look at d3, you can look at any arpg out there, go play grim dawn, a self found game, titan quest, sacred 1, sacred 2, torchlight, dungeon siege, marvel heroes. All of them are build in self found in mind, with highest tier of items that are hard to get. Any arpg out there except POE (and d3 on release) is made with balanced as a self found game and not balanced around trading.

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miljan wrote:

Self found doens have to do anything what type of item system a game has. You dont need to look at d3, you can look at any arpg out there, go play grim dawn, a self found game, titan quest, sacred 1, sacred 2, torchlight, dungeon siege. All of them are build in self found in mind, with highest tier of items that are hard to get. Any arpg out there except POE (and d3 on release) is made with balanced as a self found game.

I follow you though the first half of this statement. All those games are easily playable self found. But so is PoE. D3 on release was different because of how they balanced the Inferno difficulty. It just wasn't something people could complete. I could beat up to halfway through Inferno self found though.

I don't think we're going to agree on this, but personally trading is in the game to min-max a character. I have some builds on PoE that are fairly "complete". I also have that in D3. I don't really have that in the other games because there isn't an economy or an item system to support me.

Removing trading will never be a solution, as GGG defines the economy as the most important thing in their game. What remains? Paying self found in the existing leagues.

A LOT of self found players like the drop rates, they WANT to grind for years without getting everything. They like having a carrot - not matter how long they play.

And then we have A LOT of players, wanting an increase in drop rates, due to the balancing around trade. I can understand that, as they may play WAY more than traders, getting WAY less.

And then we have A LOT of players, playing MAINLY self found, but trades now and then, mainly currency exchange.

And THEN... You see where I'm going with this? Removing trading will never be an option, and agreeing on the rule set of a self found league (Amount of increase in drop rates? Partying allowed? Allocation?) will never be agreed on.

No, give me a flag option in character creation disabling trading, and giving me the ability to compare myself with other self found players. Increased drop rates? Maybe, I have played for 3 years, farming end game maps with several MF chars without seeing ONE T1 unique. Am I mad? No. Am I playing? Yes.

But, make a SOLID MAJORITY agree on something, and then we talk.

The trade system and the drop rate in this game are both pure garbage.

I cant understand how players enjoy them, no other ARPG in the history of the genre has been this niggardly when it comes to drop rates.

Just to mention it, Selffound will probably be improved a lot with Divination Cards being released.

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darkmatch wrote:

Just to mention it, Selffound will probably improved a lot with Divination Cards being released.

How so? The cards will not drop more than the orb itself does. How does that improve anything? If anything, it helps the already rich and good players with their ability to create more bis gear.

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

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darkmatch wrote:

Just to mention it, Selffound will probably improved a lot with Divination Cards being released.

How so? The cards will not drop more than the orb itself does. How does that improve anything? If anything, it helps the already rich and good players with their ability to create more bis gear.

It helps because the cards only drop in a specific area. This means you can target the item you want with your play. Ideally you can play a bit each day and progress towards an item rather than simply hoping it will drop during your play time.

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Imma Pokemon wrote:

How so? The cards will not drop more than the orb itself does. How does that improve anything? If anything, it helps the already rich and good players with their ability to create more bis gear.

They work deterministic, meaning based on the area you visit you can influence which card is able to drop. Imagine a Shavronne's Card as example: You need 30 parts and those parts are 30x more likely to drop than a Shavronne's itself. By this, you can work towards your goal.

Edit: too late

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

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darkmatch wrote:

Just to mention it, Selffound will probably improved a lot with Divination Cards being released.

How so? The cards will not drop more than the orb itself does. How does that improve anything? If anything, it helps the already rich and good players with their ability to create more bis gear.

You have to be a little bit lucky several times, instead of hitting the jackpot one time.