Why don’t we remove trading altogether?

I didn't read every post in this thread. I just read the original and felt the need to post a response...

I will never, ever understand why people want trading removed from games like this. The only reason I play these games is building wealth and sharing gear with friends. If you take those things out of the game it simply becomes a slot machine.

So add in all that stuff the OP mentioned. It's fine. It will change the economy, but there's no reason at all to remove trading.

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majesw wrote:

I didn't read every post in this thread. I just read the original and felt the need to post a response...

I will never, ever understand why people want trading removed from games like this. The only reason I play these games is building wealth and sharing gear with friends. If you take those things out of the game it simply becomes a slot machine.

So add in all that stuff the OP mentioned. It's fine. It will change the economy, but there's no reason at all to remove trading.

How is it a slot machine when you take things out? There is no redeeming quality about never finding a mirror while others bathe in them.

I dont want trading removed but at least buff the damn drop rate.

Hell, if i had the money and the means to make a game myself i would, because what they did in D3 sucks, full on self found is just sad and full on trading like in POE is also just sad.

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phrazz wrote:

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miljan wrote:

First, majority of arpg population will always have more fun getting drops from killing monsters, than getting it from trading. So majority of PoE players will play that league and just confirm how wrong a decision of GGG to make a game around economy is (not the first time)

First of all: I hear you and understand where you're coming from. A share many of your views, but not all.

But when it comes to this quote, you're wrong. There are SURPRISINGLY many people who likes trading. Not just what you earn from it; but the actual trading part of trading. They love the shit out of it. Understand it those who can, because I'm having a hard time understanding it.

To all others: Why do you have to turn everything so freaking black/white? It's quite funny to read, that "tweaked drop rates" suddenly becomes "raining orbs and uniques" and "every item will drop all the time". It's pretty clear you do not know what the hell you're talking about, bringing comments like that.

Maybe you didnt understand me very good, or I didnt express my self clear, but i am not wrong.

Yes there are people that like to trade, a lot of them, probably POE after d3 vanila has the most people that like it from all arpg games. But, compare that number to number of players they are just a minority.

You can easily follow in a new league how many people actively play the game in few first days (later it become problem as people will reroll characters). And as the ladder is filled full in first day, you can easy see that it has minimum of 15 000 active players on the league (probably a lot more but we can not get the number that easy later in league). But when you go to the trading forum after few weeks you will see few thousand threads made. And they will not even be 1/3 of active player base for that league most of the time. And thats why I say minority. And not even all of them like to trade, I even made a trading thread that was after league end moved to standard, or better said HC trading forum, and be sure that I hate trading.


Also OP should edit his thread to suggest that this changes are made in a separated league, but vanilla game to stay same. The error of d3 was, even though I hate AH and balance around trading as it hurt the game in so many ways, is to remove it for all people even for those that like using AH/RMAH or trading.

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

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majesw wrote:

I didn't read every post in this thread. I just read the original and felt the need to post a response...

I will never, ever understand why people want trading removed from games like this. The only reason I play these games is building wealth and sharing gear with friends. If you take those things out of the game it simply becomes a slot machine.

So add in all that stuff the OP mentioned. It's fine. It will change the economy, but there's no reason at all to remove trading.

How is it a slot machine when you take things out? There is no redeeming quality about never finding a mirror while others bathe in them.

I dont want trading removed but at least buff the damn drop rate.

Hell, if i had the money and the means to make a game myself i would, because what they did in D3 sucks, full on self found is just sad and full on trading like in POE is also just sad.

I liken it to a slot machine simply because running to a boss, killing it and picking up an item or two is quite similar to pulling a lever, seeing 3 different shapes, and picking up coins every now and them. This is exactly what I feel when I play D3...

These games have used the psychology of how slot machines work since rogue.exe started the genre.

I'll say it again and again if i have to. Could all the SF hippies please stop acting like trading is black and white. You are talking like you either need to be a full bound merchant with no time to play or play SF. Wich is just ridiculous.

The middleway is just fine for most people. If you would spend as much time advocating SF leagues as you would to try and get your mind around how to trade efficiently, you would see there is only a very small investment of time needed to keep trading to a minimum but still benefit from the existence of it.

And yes that does mean that people that are online alot, and use most of that time trading will have better items then you do, get over it. You get to play the game. They play their own game.

I have been very satisfied in PoE so far being ultra efficient with trading, getting wealthy beyond what most people would see as normal in 3 month leagues. But my first priority is always to play the game.

In my experience the people i meet that are sceptical about trading, are the ones that are just either lazy to find out what it can offer for them, or just oblivious because they are to stubborn to see what it can do for them. Just give it a try, find your own way how to make trading work for you. There are many many way to do it. It's certainly not in any way just Black and White.

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majesw wrote:

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

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majesw wrote:

I didn't read every post in this thread. I just read the original and felt the need to post a response...

I will never, ever understand why people want trading removed from games like this. The only reason I play these games is building wealth and sharing gear with friends. If you take those things out of the game it simply becomes a slot machine.

So add in all that stuff the OP mentioned. It's fine. It will change the economy, but there's no reason at all to remove trading.

How is it a slot machine when you take things out? There is no redeeming quality about never finding a mirror while others bathe in them.

I dont want trading removed but at least buff the damn drop rate.

Hell, if i had the money and the means to make a game myself i would, because what they did in D3 sucks, full on self found is just sad and full on trading like in POE is also just sad.

I liken it to a slot machine simply because running to a boss, killing it and picking up an item or two is quite similar to pulling a lever, seeing 3 different shapes, and picking up coins every now and them. This is exactly what I feel when I play D3...

You dont seem to play slots very often. Rarely do you get something out of it. Besides, you dont put anything into it other than time, you dont "pay" for the item drop. You just do the same boss over and over until you are lucky.

And You cant compare D3 to POE, its the same genre, but not the same approach.

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miljan wrote:

You can easily follow in a new league how many people actively play the game in few first days (later it become problem as people will reroll characters). And as the ladder is filled full in first day, you can easy see that it has minimum of 15 000 active players on the league (probably a lot more but we can not get the number that easy later in league). But when you go to the trading forum after few weeks you will see few thousand threads made. And they will not even be 1/3 of active player base for that league most of the time. And thats why I say minority. And not even all of them like to trade, I even made a trading thread that was after league end moved to standard, or better said HC trading forum, and be sure that I hate trading.

Be careful with how you use this example to represent trading in PoE...
Yes, not even one third of the player base hosts shops. But these players are simply the base for the League's economy. They are not the entirety of it. These players supply the rest of the league with items. They are the "business owners". Almost every player trades for something as the league goes on. I wouldn't hesitate to say that well over 75% of players participate in the economy.

The original poster is asking that this system be completely removed. It doesn't matter if you hate trading or not. The reason Diablo 3 can go self found is that their item system and character building system have almost zero diversity. They can write an algorithm that figures out what items you need and have the game drop them for you.

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

You dont seem to play slots very often. Rarely do you get something out of it. Besides, you dont put anything into it other than time, you dont "pay" for the item drop. You just do the same boss over and over until you are lucky.

And You cant compare D3 to POE, its the same genre, but not the same approach.

I rarely get anything from a boss drop. Time is money to most people... And I can compare D3 to a cactus if I really want to.

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majesw wrote:

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ImmaPokemon wrote:

You dont seem to play slots very often. Rarely do you get something out of it. Besides, you dont put anything into it other than time, you dont "pay" for the item drop. You just do the same boss over and over until you are lucky.

And You cant compare D3 to POE, its the same genre, but not the same approach.

I rarely get anything from a boss drop. Time is money to most people... And I can compare D3 to a cactus if I really want to.

Time is money if you are paid to play or earn money while you play. Unless you RMT there is only time invested here, not money to be lost or made.