Protecting your "PRECIOUS" economy ain't working so give up and fix desync instead

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Legatus1982 wrote:

These aren't claims of anything. They are people expressing their dissatisfaction with the state of desync in the game. And 2 years ago? No, but if they were it still wouldn't matter, desync hasn't changed much since then. They added some minor help in the form of mostly more frequent resyncing, but the problem still exists in the same form it did 2 years ago.

Saying the impact on the game is not huge when there are LITERALLY COUNTLESS threads about this is a massive understatement. This is THE NUMBER ONE MOST DISCUSSED ISSUE. It has been that way FOR YEARS. People like YOURSELF are enabling GGG to ignore this problem. FUCKING STOP already.

Don't need to or care to stop responding to the fact that the economy is greater for the game then whatever players have left from desync is. Your essentially asking GGG to take away core design mechanics because of a downside that players have, this is expressed in the dev manifesto specifically on this topic.

Saying the number 1 discussed topic is the number 1 reason why people leave is asinine, you don't and can't know that just because its discussed the most that is the reason people leave the game.

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goetzjam wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

These aren't claims of anything. They are people expressing their dissatisfaction with the state of desync in the game. And 2 years ago? No, but if they were it still wouldn't matter, desync hasn't changed much since then. They added some minor help in the form of mostly more frequent resyncing, but the problem still exists in the same form it did 2 years ago.

Saying the impact on the game is not huge when there are LITERALLY COUNTLESS threads about this is a massive understatement. This is THE NUMBER ONE MOST DISCUSSED ISSUE. It has been that way FOR YEARS. People like YOURSELF are enabling GGG to ignore this problem. FUCKING STOP already.

Don't need to or care to stop responding to the fact that the economy is greater for the game then whatever players have left from desync is. Your essentially asking GGG to take away core design mechanics because of a downside that players have, this is expressed in the dev manifesto specifically on this topic.

Saying the number 1 discussed topic is the number 1 reason why people leave is asinine, you don't and can't know that just because its discussed the most that is the reason people leave the game.

Did you just try to bait me with another logical fallacy? That's pretty cute. But you're probably right: We can't know that the reason people leave the game is because of the most discussed, most complained about, most easily fixed thing about it. That just wouldn't make any gosh darn sense, would it?

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goetzjam wrote:

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Legatus1982 wrote:

These aren't claims of anything. They are people expressing their dissatisfaction with the state of desync in the game. And 2 years ago? No, but if they were it still wouldn't matter, desync hasn't changed much since then. They added some minor help in the form of mostly more frequent resyncing, but the problem still exists in the same form it did 2 years ago.

Saying the impact on the game is not huge when there are LITERALLY COUNTLESS threads about this is a massive understatement. This is THE NUMBER ONE MOST DISCUSSED ISSUE. It has been that way FOR YEARS. People like YOURSELF are enabling GGG to ignore this problem. FUCKING STOP already.

Don't need to or care to stop responding to the fact that the economy is greater for the game then whatever players have left from desync is. Your essentially asking GGG to take away core design mechanics because of a downside that players have, this is expressed in the dev manifesto specifically on this topic.

Saying the number 1 discussed topic is the number 1 reason why people leave is asinine, you don't and can't know that just because its discussed the most that is the reason people leave the game.

Well, let's use our brains for a second. To begin with it wouldn't matter if it's the #1 people leave, it's the biggest complaint about the game and it should be fixed. But, still the number one complaint about this game, on the forums at least, is desync. What would, logically, be the number one reason people stop playing POE then?

Let's use our brains for another second (I know, using your brain twice in rapid succession - not an easy task). Desync is caused by what? Player and monster position? So what "hacks" would be caused by moving player and monster position to the client? Still no item duping, still no item generation, still no one shotting atziri. Literally the only thing you could do with this is make a cheat where the mobs are "missing" your character physically position-wise. Guess what? It doesn't affect the economy AT ALL. And it would be easily detected after a certain point. Take your fail argument elsewhere please.

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Arrowneous wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

1. Starting with Steam. Peak today 8.3k players. Even if we were generous and assume that only 1/4 of the poe community is made up of Steam users (which is close to what most people assume; I think it's actually more like 1/2), that still only puts the active players around 35k (or 17k if I'm correct).

That's concurrent players, not active players. I'm not in that number (haven't played the last 2 or 3 days) but I'm still an active player :) Big difference.

 Out of what total accounts: 6.5 million?, 7+ million? This is further evidence that desync is a major reason for the high "I quit" numbers. GGG can try to sugar coat it all they want or pretend "it's not happening" but we all can read between the lines here and GGG's silence on the whole problem tells me they're so stuck in the proverbial "rock and hard place" with their server/client programming model failing to keep both sides in sync. This forever serious problem drove my 2 best friends out of PoE in summer of 2013 and we 3 have played all the oldies from Balder's Gate I and II to D1, D2 (at least a dozen times), D3, and D3:RoS, TQIT, and we 3 even enjoyed TL2. We even gave Neverwinter Nights a try. So for anyone to post that desync is not a problem must be playing PoE with rose colored glasses on. It's time to take them off and see PoE for what it really is, a super fun old-school style arpg but with massively infuriating amounts of desync.

I think you (and other guys) are overthinking this. 70% of people who try the desync free, extremly casual friendly WoW quit before level 10: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/02/11/70-of-trial-players-quit-wow-before-level-10/

:)

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Xavderion wrote:

I think you (and other guys) are overthinking this. 70% of people who try the desync free, extremly casual friendly WoW quit before level 10: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/02/11/70-of-trial-players-quit-wow-before-level-10/

:)

What part of this discussion has anything to do with being casual friendly? I couldn't care less if it's casual friendly or not. I just want the game to get rid of desync, and at least make SOME attempt at balancing the various builds and gems. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not people are leaving POE, the game has problems that are easily fixed. People HAVE quit poe because of desync, that is a fact of life. But it's not the only issue.

I mean it's good info (though the article says many of the accounts were created with the intention of doing things at lvl < 10 anyways) but I'm not sure why everyone is debating the number of accounts.

Let's not also forget the the trial version of that game was pretty limiting, and boring, so it's easy to see why people would leave if that's all they thought the game had to offer. Also, I think there was a point where botters/RMTers were using trial accounts for something (I think chat related) until they changed it.

Still, the point was about player activity, and we can objectively see it decreasing over time. What good is that precious economy when your average player can't even meaningfully participate it in, and botters/RMTers/no-lifers essentially get to monopolize it; especially when it's a small community to begin with?

That said, there was a point where I played this game fairly seriously. I have over 800hrs on it (mostly between Domination and Rampage) according to my Steam acct, but I've played most of this season pretty lightly and sparingly by comparison. Hardcore never interested me in any ARPG--same with pvp--but this season didn't have much to offer (stupid ghost bullshit), so I've been playing a lot more Borderlands, Torchlight, KOTOR 2, Skyrim, etc.

I still love this game, but if the patch after they release act 4 still has such severe desync, GGG are going to have to pull something out of their ass to keep me around. Would sure love to know how they plan to address this in the long-term.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

I think you (and other guys) are overthinking this. 70% of people who try the desync free, extremly casual friendly WoW quit before level 10: http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/02/11/70-of-trial-players-quit-wow-before-level-10/

:)

What part of this discussion has anything to do with being casual friendly? I couldn't care less if it's casual friendly or not. I just want the game to get rid of desync, and at least make SOME attempt at balancing the various builds and gems. It has NOTHING to do with whether or not people are leaving POE, the game has problems that are easily fixed. People HAVE quit poe because of desync, that is a fact of life. But it's not the only issue.

I mean it's good info (though the article says many of the accounts were created with the intention of doing things at lvl < 10 anyways) but I'm not sure why everyone is debating the number of accounts.

You and others claim that people quit the game mostly because of desync. I claim that it has other, less complicated reasons and supply a link that supports my claim :)

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Still, the point was about player activity, and we can objectively see it decreasing over time.

We can see Steam player activity kind of stagnating (not really decreasing, just check the monthly average numbers), overall player activity is kinda hard to judge when the majority of players don't use Steam or maybe even play on Garena servers (I heard Asians love grinding).

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

What good is that precious economy when your average player can't even meaningfully participate it in, and botters/RMTers/no-lifers essentially get to monopolize it; especially when it's a small community to begin with?

Not sure what you mean, I'm an average player and can participate in the economy just fine. I also don't suffer because of some monopolization. I just play the game and buy and sell shit every once in a while.

Still didn't see any reliable source (which would be a statement of GGG according numbers of people left and joined over the course of the last few expansions).

Also, GGG stated, that the average account does finish act 1 before "quitting". I can not find the statement at the moment, but I'll link it as soon as I find it.

So, while "desync" might be a factor for the average account, there are many other factors with the same potency as desync which leads to people discontinueing with the game.




All I see are personal attack onto people defending GGGs stance and advances they had with desync allready. It is much better then it was in Open Beta.

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Xavderion wrote:

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AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

Still, the point was about player activity, and we can objectively see it decreasing over time.

We can see Steam player activity kind of stagnating (not really decreasing, just check the monthly average numbers), overall player activity is kinda hard to judge when the majority of players don't use Steam or maybe even play on Garena servers (I heard Asians love grinding).

See, this argument can just die now because it has no way to be credible for the same reason you want to dismiss the Steam numbers--you don't know what portion of players use Steam. You can't have it both ways. But as I said earlier, if you just look at it as a ratio of the total player base, it will be consistent.