True gamers don't cheat!

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Pyrokar wrote:

\Would making the game as brutal as possible be a good response to push these kinds of people away? I would be down with it.

define "brutal".

@Manocean, buying a Waypoint?
I don't know man. I just give them away if I have them and someone is asking.
it's only a minute of my time in most cases.
people charge for this BS?

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Pyrokar wrote:

\Would making the game as brutal as possible be a good response to push these kinds of people away? I would be down with it.

define "brutal".

@Manocean, buying a Waypoint?
I don't know man. I just give them away if I have them and someone is asking.
it's only a minute of my time in most cases.
people charge for this BS?

If you want examples:

I think something like disabling Immortal call for cast when damage taken would go a long way. Anything that lets you afk farm in end game without minding your surroundings should be removed, including purities and arctic armor. Monster damage should be increased. High level items should not make you immortal, but just give you a little breathing room. I know i might sound extreme, but i think the game was better in the past.

If you cheat and still get your ass kicked, will you cheat or will you look for knowledge to overcome the difficulties the game throws at you?

Or at least these were my thoughts while making this thread.

The game is what it is, and the rules are what they are. All you can do as a player is choose to play or not. If you cheat, you should have that option taken from you.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

The game is what it is, and the rules are what they are. All you can do as a player is choose to play or not. If you cheat, you should have that option taken from you.

No disagreements there.

There is no such thing as true gamers don't cheat.

Some true gamers have the most fun while breaking the game,
others have the most fun while following the game as it was intended.

Most do both depending on the situation, the game and the time..

However, both those cases are irrelevant to title, because what your sentence meant was that people don't cheat. Which is just wrong. If you said, gamers with honour don't cheat, that would make more sense.

I don't mind cheating after i've handled things properly some times first, just to switch the game up. There comes a time when.. you are an rng digger and all you really do is spend hours and hours and hours searching for that specific bit of rng.. which is.. sometimes foolish..

In D2 i often cheated in single player with hero editor testing out things and the like, and when it was time to really play i played battlenet with no cheats.. well back in those days i did try maphack some times that was kinda fun, but only after many years. Before i got internet i used to have 2 different folders for hero editor items. One for things i had found myself and one for things i'd have cheated to get or modified for some purpose or whatever. All that ever did was enhance my experience.

Now in D2 it didn't ruin the game for me because it didn't take a year of play to gear a character like in poe, you could level up new ones every season and gear them np and have fun and get into the game, so even if i had some cheated things in single player, i really spent my time playing legit etc... that is sort of an offnote, but it's actually my main problem with poe and why i often post about droprates. I know the ARPG is better when you can play the short leagues and still experience the full spectrum of character development without playing 10h every day for at least 3 months.

In D2 i refused to ever play non-ladder, i would frown at the very thought of playing that shit, but because i like to take my time to fully develop my characters, poe pushed me into picking permanent league because there was just no way that was possible for someone like me, who takes the time to do things properly, to experience what i desire the most, the fullness of my character, in short leagues.

I know the ARPG is better when you can play the short leagues, that is why i know, poe is not ideal gameplay, because it is like butter scraped over too much bread in regards to that aspect.

It also leaves the game vulnerable, because legit players get so little that they get enraged when someone has something easy because they worked their ass off. It's not a land of milk and honey, its a barren wasteland. Well, not that extreme, but yea..

I would rather say non-asshole games don't cheat when it effects other people.

I could give a rat's ass if you botted 24/7, as long as you don't trade it to other people or RMT nobody cares. Which why I think GGG should just sell a single player version of the game.

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Crackmonster wrote:

There is no such thing as true gamers don't cheat.

Some true gamers have the most fun while breaking the game,
others have the most fun while following the game as it was intended.

Most do both depending on the situation, the game and the time..

So wrong, it hurts. You can break the game (perma-curses on atziri and leave instance was that exactly - breaking the game but using in-game mechanics, snapshooting also etc.) but not cheat. Cheating is doing something that goes against the game's policy, dont confuse it with breaking, which is smart usage of legal in-game mechanics to gain an advantage.

I personally hate both cheating and breaking a game, and i always try to use any kind of mechanic the way GGG had in mind when implementing it (BM keystone for pure life characters, no snapshooting etc)


If you still believe true gamers cheat, then you havent met a true gamer ever in your life. True gamers play a game to explore its gameplay, lore and even mechanics, have fun while doing so, try their best and solve any kind of problem on their own. If they come across an obstacle they take their time to overcome it and never seek illegal help or use cheats, yes they might ask help from a friend or a forum for something that they are not able to comprehend, but they refuse to accept more than they really need. Thats why people who use cheats, hacks, following guides/walkthroughs, and want everything solved and ready for them are not true gamers, instant gratification is not part of the fun for a true gamer.

P.S. : in the case of PoE, even build guides are a big no for old school gamers

P.S. II : hacking and cheating in PoE, is like using a walkthrough to get past Carla in the Secret of Monkey Island - unacceptable and totally idiotic

Everyone can define "true gamer" their own way... I'll take it as it was intended.

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Pyrokar wrote:

I think something like disabling Immortal call for cast when damage taken would go a long way. Anything that lets you afk farm in end game without minding your surroundings should be removed, including purities and arctic armor. Monster damage should be increased. High level items should not make you immortal, but just give you a little breathing room. I know i might sound extreme, but i think the game was better in the past.

that's brutal indeed, but see I can achieve this kind of "brutal" in a heartbeat: let me just swap my Staff Templar's staff with a 2-hander (for that zero block chance instead of near-zero), and the chest armour for a Tabula Rasa.
that's zero defence, uncapped resistances, no CWDT, and my Abyssus to top it all off.
insta-brutal. turn what is already a glass cannon into something that'll be one-shot by white mobs.

now, take my tankiest character - CWDT Immortal Call, great leech, capped resistances and all that - and load him into a map.
if there are monsters nearby and I take too much time to load it - a.k.a "server-side AFK" - he'll likely be dead.

because the game is mostly about gear-checks, so "achieving true AFK status" is about crazy gear, which I don't have and never will.
so when I play, I'm always on my toes. especially in HC.

therefore a far better definition of "brutal", in my opinion, will be to give monsters better AI, better synergy between different monster types, and maybe some very specific "special attacks" you can easily see coming and dodge - in any situation - but only if you are paying attention.

make it so even uber-geared guys can get their asses kicked if they aren't minding their surroundings, but not-uber-geared won't necessarily be, if they are skilled and vigilant enough.
harder to implement, but a far better solution compared to "dis monstar basic attak do 9000000000 damage against not mirrored gear", in my opinion.

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johnKeys wrote:

because the game is mostly about gear-checks, so "achieving true AFK status" is about crazy gear, which I don't have and never will.
so when I play, I'm always on my toes. especially in HC.

therefore a far better definition of "brutal", in my opinion, will be to give monsters better AI, better synergy between different monster types, and maybe some very specific "special attacks" you can easily see coming and dodge - in any situation - but only if you are paying attention.

make it so even uber-geared guys can get their asses kicked if they aren't minding their surroundings, but not-uber-geared won't necessarily be, if they are skilled and vigilant enough.
harder to implement, but a far better solution compared to "dis monstar basic attak do 9000000000 damage against not mirrored gear", in my opinion.

Manually dodging isn't 100% viable in PoE, due to desync.

Uber geared guys get their asses kicked on a daily basis when they don't pay attention. The builds most players consider "OP" and insane, unkillable, one-shot everything, faceroll the game with their eyes closed - they're the ones I see die every day. While that boring tanky, defense-first, character no one wants to play, well, he lived.