Until melee is fixed, a lot of people will not comeback.

"

goetzjam wrote:

As for surviability melee had the OP BoR, with level 18 gems, great life, 15% block. And they had survivability problems...LOL.

BoR has never really been OP as in having too much power for the entire game. It was only OP in the sense that it's a great item that doesn't cost a zillion exalts. People liked spending a handful of exalts for a BoR instead of a 6L and everything else. The block was the best part of the item, without the extra block BoR would have been tossed aside for better gear, and now GGG has nerfed block.

"

JohnNamikaze wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

How to count the number of ways high dps melee builds get shit on by GGG:
Plink
Necrovigil
speed aura (they'll get you first)
ranged mobs
smoke mine mobs
flicker mobs
lockboxes (you can skip these, but well...you lose wealth doing so)
every boss in the game, because they require more than 1 hit
etc etc etc

These are almost all things ranged chars just avoid by controlling the range of the encounter, even if it's by offscreen killing

Also, all of the things you are mentioning for helping melee survivability is stuff that ranged characters can, and do, use just to survive occasional straggler hits here and there during regular gameplay. Why you think it's going to make facetanking inevitable hits melee has to face every encounter a better idea, I'm not sure.

Speed aura mobs can get right in the face of ranged chars in no time, and kiting can be boring at times. Ranged mobs, well, if you are Evasion melee, Ondar's Guile will cut most of that problem away. As for smoke mine mobs, RT melee has no issue with them. Flicker mobs, I have them just as bad or worse at times as ranged character. It only takes one crit out of them to wreck me to oblivion. Even as evasion+dodge ranged character, a whole bunch of flicker mobs with crit = death.


Lockboxes can troll me in all type of characters.


As for the bosses, I am more comfortable playing most of them as melee, then as ranged. Of course, there are bosses that can be easy picking from ranged characters.

I think you're fully aware of why these are pointless arguments and why there is no need to continue further with this discussion. Maybe I'm giving you too much credit though.

"

JohnNamikaze wrote:

This entire topic is filled with monkey's feces. I am trying to help out from my personal experience as melee and range, and all I get is feces thrown at my face. Everyone in here has had feces thrown to their face. At this point, I am not ever sure there is hope for this thread.

All i can say is



:'(

Peace,

-Boem-

(take these threads with a grain of salt ayee?)

Just instantly ripped @ level 75 to desync through wall in a regular +30% damage temple map with the following character defenses:
4 endurance charges
level 17 AA
Cwdt + enfeeble + EC + arctic breath (for chilling ground)
hatred aura (for freezing on attacks/counterattacks)
CoD
6k granite flask
6k jade flask
Vengeance + LGoH + life leech (+ leech from tree and items)
170% life on tree

Was on one side of the wall, lured a mob to me, attacked him and only him, appeared on the other side of the wall a second later surrounded by mobs and died nearly instantly. It's clearly my fault for not predicting that could happen, what a n00b.

So let's add these defenses together:
.84: - 4 endurance charges - 16% reduction
.8: - Enfeebled mobs - ~20% reduction to all damage (plus conservative ~20% less mob accuracy, remember this part)
.7: CoD - 30% reduction to all damage (with pretty big mana buffer, no overhit stuff)
.55: ironskin granite flask - ~45% damage reduction, according to tooltip defense sheet
.4: reflexes jade flask - ~45% evasion tooltip (on top of the 15% I already had from shitty hybrid gear), we'll call this conservatively 50% evasion. plus mobs are enfeebled, so less chance to hit - we can call this 60% evasion, conservatively, with no realistic enemy crit chance at that point
.7: chill/freeze from AA, hatred + vengeance, and arctic breath+cwdt. It's typically 0% damage received after one hit due to this alone, but we'll round this to the base chill amount which is 30% slow.

Plus:
~3300 life with my crap gear (~170% from tree)
level 17 AA - flat damage reduction roughly 100 per hit (again, conservative)
Vengeance + LGoH + life leech (+ leech from tree and items) - typically gives me back 500ish per hit HP, should have gone off at least once

So altogether that's 0.84 * 0.8 * 0.7 * 0.55 * 0.4 * 0.7 = 0.0724416, or 8% damage received (on average) + near-crit-immunity from regular temple trash white physical attacking mobs (which is what killed me, btw). That damage is then reduced flat rate via arctic armor (The guys that apparently killed me were phys mobs). Normally in most cases this received damage would amount to an actual 0 after AA. For example, for mobs that normally deal 10k damage per second (boss-level damage for early maps), I would typically take 800 damage per second which is then reduced by AA flat-rate (meaning, the more mobs dealing it, the less taken, which in this case was a lot of small weak mobs) and then ~500 that is immediately leeched back by vengeance, which has a better CD than 1 per second (it's like .84 cd or something).

Yes I know this is pseudo math but it is pretty close to the actual amount of damage I am receiving relative to what they are dishing out, given how conservative I was with most of these numbers I don't think you can argue with most of it.

But melee is viable yeah. Just gotta l2p man. Gotta get good I guess, l2p issue. Nothing to see here just n00b scrub who can't play poe.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Just instantly ripped @ level 75 in a map with:
4 endurance charges
level 17 AA
Cwdt + enfeeble + EC + arctic breath (for slow)
CoD
6k granite flask
6k jade flask
Vengeance + LGoH + life leech (+ leech from tree and items)
170% life on tree

Was on one side of the wall, lured a mob to me, attacked him and only him, appeared on the other side of the wall a second later surrounded by mobs and died instantly. Wow, such a failure on my part to predict that could happen or stack enough defenses. This was just a level 69 map btw.

But melee is viable yeah. Just gotta l2p man

Please you listed everything, BUT the map mods.

Do you have stun immunity?

"

goetzjam wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Just instantly ripped @ level 75 in a map with:
4 endurance charges
level 17 AA
Cwdt + enfeeble + EC + arctic breath (for slow)
CoD
6k granite flask
6k jade flask
Vengeance + LGoH + life leech (+ leech from tree and items)
170% life on tree

Was on one side of the wall, lured a mob to me, attacked him and only him, appeared on the other side of the wall a second later surrounded by mobs and died instantly. Wow, such a failure on my part to predict that could happen or stack enough defenses. This was just a level 69 map btw.

But melee is viable yeah. Just gotta l2p man

Please you listed everything, BUT the map mods.

Do you have stun immunity?

I listed the map mods and stun immunity has nothing to do with any of the defensive effects I listed. Literally none. It was a temple map via zana with only one damage mod: 30% more damage

I literally cannot come up with a more tanky build than this, even if I took no damage nodes on tree that would only reduce leech and freeze/stun from counterattacks for minimal life returns.

It's time to throw in the towel on melee being at all viable for normal players, seriously, it doesn't get any more bullshit than this. Any ranged character would shit on all this content. One damage mod on a fucking white mob pack in a level 69 map with no other modifiers, against the world's tankiest phys reduction build that isn't IC. map level again was SIXTY NINE. Vs a 75 char.

"

I listed the map mods and stun immunity has nothing to do with any of the defensive effects I listed. Literally none. It was a temple map via zana with only one damage mod: 30% more damage

Where did you list the map mods? 30% more damage is pretty significant, what was the zana quest itself out of curiosity?

"

I literally cannot come up with a more tanky build than this, even if I took no damage nodes on tree that would only reduce leech and freeze/stun from counterattacks for minimal life returns.

Maybe for your 2 1 handed daggers shadow. You very well know that dual wielding block\acro\phase\ect was nerfed this past patch, now you know it apparently doesn't work well enough for you.

"

It's time to throw in the towel on melee being at all viable for normal players, seriously, it doesn't get any more bullshit than this. Any ranged character would shit on all this content. One damage mod on a fucking white mob pack in a level 69 map with no other modifiers, against the world's tankiest phys reduction build that isn't IC. map level again was SIXTY NINE. Vs a 75 char.

Give up after 1 failed melee build, I guess all melee builds are terrible. Isn't 3300 life really bad for HC, let alone a fairly high map with a significant damage mod.

there always be people defending anything just to 'be different' - some people defending current melee state are just that. to 'be different'