Until melee is fixed, a lot of people will not comeback.

"

sidtherat wrote:

and yet even with this marvel of a tree youll get instagibbed by a pack of GMP frog leapers in -max map. taking 20+ Arctic Breaths to the face will bypass your armor-based defences and all these shield nodes and 1KO you..

it is easy to tank (and you HAVE to tank) 90% of the content. but once the stars align badly - melee HAS to facetank BS like said GMP leapers in -max map, with desync added to spice things up

how is your build exactly dealing with stuff like this? oh.. it doesnt.

Well you deal with those things with gear, skill and playstyle changes. The tree is not an autopilot to victory. This is just the easiest thing for me to give advice on given the circumstances.

In short - 'play ranged'? Because aside from flasks (and you wont be carrying all 3 res flasks with you, same for Concoction) and just plain avoiding such encounters your FB build cant do a thing vs such combination.

You might bring saffales on swap (yeah right) using atziri step (ofc.. ) or conversion trap/decoy totem but you know and we all know these are joke suggestions

Builds stacking phys protection trough the roof are cute. And sure look reassuring and few can be convinced but what kills in the end are bs combos involving SPELL ele damage. Evasion nor armor do jack vs these. Ranged kill from the dostance. Malee has to facetank such stuff. And there is not that many ways to do so - crit builds can rely on perma-ele-flasks but RT FB build? One can setup for atziri but entering a map there are surprises to encounter and there is no way to be prepared for all of these.

"

Zoroch wrote:

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

How can they ever solve the problem if people don't spec the solutions?

Snorkle is correct here in this case it seems. I made a tree as I would for block facebreaker just to see how it would pan out compared to the tree provided. Assuming the stats given by op I would in theory get ~8k life, around 3-4 times more armour, 2 extra endurance charges, the 4% phys reduction, one of the increased duration clusters (for manual IC), 1.8% more life regen and better potions. This for the approximate cost of the marauder start damage nodes, some evasion nodes ,IR (which were kind of a waste with that gear) and Berserking.

Even with no further changes (gear, skills, playstyle) this should improve your situation notably.

You would still have to look out for elemental spells in higher maps but you should have enough time to react if you play carefully.

Just my position about this.

My main point was about any melee build not only my own, 2h rt, blood magic, all those melee have the same problems but your help concerning my fb build is welcome.

Your build is perfect for a solo HC play style, but Facebreaker attack speed base is very very low. I can t remember the numbers but without Berserker before you can actualy hit a monster, you will get hit multiples times, this will give you much more opportunities to get one shot by elemental damages or bad crit luck.

Also since 1.3 Cyclone skill speed got nerfed AKA now cyclone without taking attack speed using an unarmed build is like playing on temporal chain. You need to take speed nods if you wish to use cyclone.

Unarmed builds can use only few skills, from all the skills, there is infernal blow. Good for solo but will kill you because of reflect and terrible clear speed in party.

Your build will work better using dominating blow because of the skill duration. unfortunately the clear speed will be terrible and in party people will kick you because you are a summon.

Even if I was doing such a build, I would still do 60% less dps than a level 70+ ranged with having to be in a stronger danger position than him (and in POE, the quicker to kill, the safer you are).

The main point is you can create virtualy very tanky builds, take all the life and armor you want but the cost on the tree is unfair compared to the little investment a ranged need to take for the same results.

Thanks for the build tree, I might try it if I can respect just to see, but it will not change the main problem: Melee gameplay is unbalanced compared to ranged and melee can t tank high dps spell damages.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Just instantly ripped @ level 75 to desync through wall in a regular +30% damage temple map with the following character defenses:
4 endurance charges
level 17 AA
Cwdt + enfeeble + EC + arctic breath (for chilling ground)
hatred aura (for freezing on attacks/counterattacks)
CoD
6k granite flask
6k jade flask
Vengeance + LGoH + life leech (+ leech from tree and items)
170% life on tree

Was on one side of the wall, lured a mob to me, attacked him and only him, appeared on the other side of the wall a second later surrounded by mobs and died nearly instantly. It's clearly my fault for not predicting that could happen, what a n00b.

so you made a build with shit defenses that cant hack going toe to toe with mobs then attacked a mob without using shift to prevent your char being desynced to the mob and then died... yep that is clearly your fault and would not have happened to a player with proper melee defenses and the game knowledge to hold shift in that position. At level 75 you are getting 100% experience from a lvl68 map, why are you in a lvl71 map? You are under leveled for that zone playing a character with bad defenses badly.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

I literally cannot come up with a more tanky build than this

Then thats exactly why you need to go back to school on poe and learn how to play/build properly, because other people come up with more tanky builds every single time they roll a melee char. You dont even know how bad those defenses are, dont know you are underleveled, dont know that you should hold down shift when attacking... problem you are having is yourself, the way to fix it is to come to terms with the fact you don't know the game that well and to actually listen and learn. Its no shame, everyone starts there its nothing personal or negative about you, you just don;t know the game well enough yet.

Sorry, I couldn't help but notice that for someone so knowledgeable about how great melee is, you have 0 melee characters mapping in bloodlines. Unlike myself, who has been to mapping several times as melee in bloodlines.

Might I make a suggestion: know what you are actually talking about before you attack others who have builds that are in fact a lot more survivable than any of your own.

And holding down shift on reave LOL or even any melee in general wow dude, you are as clueless as they come. This is how I can tell you don't know what you're talking about. Classic ranged player telling melee to hold down shift in a desync ridden game where you will in fact end up hitting 0 mobs throughout 90% of your gameplay. This is as about as ranged a mentality as you can possibly have, and it proves everything I suspected about you.

You have NO idea what you're talking about, none whatsoever, you don't play bloodlines melee, you conveniently know a million ways to take less than 0% damage from 99% of the game's content but yet where are the leet suggestions? For someone who is so awesome at POE you sure have 0 useable knowledge to offer.

Stay out of the feedback forums if you don't know what you're talking about, period. When you have a melee shadow in bloodlines mapping with normal, average shitty gear that everyone has to play with then I'll take your opinion seriously. Until then your standard league tactics are not relevant here.

"

sidtherat wrote:

and yet even with this marvel of a tree youll get instagibbed by a pack of GMP frog leapers in -max map. taking 20+ Arctic Breaths to the face will bypass your armor-based defences and all these shield nodes and 1KO you..

it is easy to tank (and you HAVE to tank) 90% of the content. but once the stars align badly - melee HAS to facetank BS like said GMP leapers in -max map, with desync added to spice things up

how is your build exactly dealing with stuff like this? oh.. it doesnt.

the frog leapers leap, doesnt matter if you are ranged or melee they jump on you.


you are grasping at straws tbh, Ive never once died to the situation u described, or any gmp spell mob on a melee char throughout the whole of 2014 despite playing 1000s of hours. I could describe many theoretical ways a ranged could die from devours where melee would have it easier because they are built to tank point blank.

I say melee would have it easier, properly built/geared melee would have it easier, can't comment about how your particular melee chars would manage. This is the thing with balance in this game, its very hard to have a discussion about it because none of us have tried all the possibilities. Its possible, probable even, to be completely oblivious to the fact things are possible that are entirely different to what you are doing and many times more effective. You can even read about them, try them, find they dont work and not realise they didnt work because you did it wrong and didnt understand properly.


My build at the start of open beta had 2k life and 4k armour in merciless. It was watching people like Nugi and Ganksta Boo playing that made me realise people were getting like 4k life, how? I got all the life nodes I could get how are they doing it? Looked at their trees... oh, right, but they don;t spec that much damage how are they still doing more dps than me? Tried a build similar to nugis... it was shit, didnt work. I could see it working but its like ok, basically he has a lioneyes bow and that is why this works for him, I dont have the gear this is a "oh look at my epeen gear im nugi hai" thing thats just for rich people. Found a lioneyes bow, linked it, still didnt work right... now I know, I know I am being a noob who doesnt get it because I can see every single day Gankstaboo and Nugi working it like champs with the same gear I have.

now I watch streamers and I still learn stuff, half the time, and the other half Im watching thinking 'the reason what you are saying/doing is wrong is because you dont have experience/understanding of this particular thing'. I watch them play all the time, I hear their thoughts on mechanics, I have learned a lot of the lessons of their experiences. They havent watched me so the same doesn't work in reverse. Theres streamers who I respect greatly, have achieved more than me, have taught me so much about the game, who know more than I know, and I still find many moments listening to them while I grind where Im half cringing. I just wish I could jump in their teamspeak and educate them about the subject they are on because they are so wrong and being such noobs.

Thats the kind of game this is, we are all in the dark about large portions of the possibilities. If someone says melee sucks first questions instantly are what are your experiences, what characters, what gear, what level, what problems do you have. Thats not elitism or being a jerk "omg ur opinion doesnt mean shit cuz ur a noob lolz" nothing to do with that at all. If you say theres a problem with X in a game like this you have to be open to the idea you were just doing it wrong, and you should care to compare in detail what you are doing to other people who disagree.

"

lolozori wrote:

My main point was about any melee build not only my own, 2h rt, blood magic, all those melee have the same problems but your help concerning my fb build is welcome.

see this is specific, melee sucks? I completely disagree. Facebreakers, 2 handers, res tech, blood magic melee sucks? Yes, I absolutely agree 100% those things suck.

Now given all the waffle Ive made, I have to follow that and say I dont really have enough experience with these forms of melee recently to say for sure they suck, Peter or someone who does 2h stuff might come in and school me on why I am wrong. But the reason I have little experience of these things is because the little I do know says its probably not worth my time trying them again. I've been meaning to make a post about how I feel they should improve some of those things. Same reason I didnt try and make a more optimized FB build than yours, I just don't know enough about FB, absolutely no experience using them. I think I agree with the specifics of what you are saying, but at the same time I feel like evasion coil melee, ci melee and hybrid ar + ev melee are in a good place in the overall balance, so when I say melee is good thats what Im talking about which is absolutely not the melee you are talking about. Honestly the fact you are level 98 playing cyclone FB melee says that cyclone and FB are in a better place than I thought they were before coming in here, or maybe my doubts about them are right and your just an extremely skilled player to have taken them so far, I have no clue its pretty much a dark area for me. Never played FB never played Cyclone.

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

you are grasping at straws tbh, Ive never once died to the situation u described, or any gmp spell mob on a melee char throughout the whole of 2014 despite playing 1000s of hours.

THOUSANDS OF HOURS rofl

with 0 melee characters in bloodlines folks

1 melee HC character in total to speak of, in regular HC from god knows what patch probably back when people used ele cleave, who the hell do you think you're fooling? you're clueless man.

"

Legatus1982 wrote:

Sorry, I couldn't help but notice that for someone so knowledgeable about how great melee is, you have 0 melee characters mapping in bloodlines. Unlike myself, who has been to mapping several times as melee in bloodlines.

Might I make a suggestion: know what you are actually talking about before you attack others who have builds that are in fact a lot more survivable than any of your own.

And holding down shift on reave LOL or even any melee in general wow dude, you are as clueless as they come. This is how I can tell you don't know what you're talking about. Classic ranged player telling melee to hold down shift in a desync ridden game where you will in fact end up hitting 0 mobs throughout 90% of your gameplay. This is as about as ranged a mentality as you can possibly have, and it proves everything I suspected about you.

You have NO idea what you're talking about, none whatsoever, you don't play bloodlines melee, you conveniently know a million ways to take less than 0% damage from 99% of the game's content but yet where are the leet suggestions? For someone who is so awesome at POE you sure have 0 useable knowledge to offer.

Stay out of the feedback forums if you don't know what you're talking about, period.

did anyone else find this as hilarious as I did?

"Might I make a suggestion: know what you are actually talking about before you attack others who have builds that are in fact a lot more survivable than any of your own"

^ this bit is my favorite.


This a troll right? I actually thought you were being serious over the last month or so posting, but fair play, I got trolled.

Melee is painful unless you have godly gear

This game should be renamed Path of ranged AOE

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

did anyone else find this as hilarious as I did?

"Might I make a suggestion: know what you are actually talking about before you attack others who have builds that are in fact a lot more survivable than any of your own"

^ this bit is my favorite.


This a troll right? I actually thought you were being serious over the last month or so posting, but fair play, I got trolled.

Still waiting for you to post your standard league melee build. It's already blatantly obvious you're clueless but we'll give you a fair chance.

Youve trolled me enough already, i honestly dont think you were ever being serious now. If you seriously wanted to see examples of proper melee builds I have posted them before, you know, you remember.

But please do share your melee builds and gear with us, Im actually curious how you managed to die to random mobs in a lvl71 map and I think it would suit the new comic nature of the discussion.