Until melee is fixed, a lot of people will not comeback.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

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sidtherat wrote:

and yet even with this marvel of a tree youll get instagibbed by a pack of GMP frog leapers in -max map. taking 20+ Arctic Breaths to the face will bypass your armor-based defences and all these shield nodes and 1KO you..

it is easy to tank (and you HAVE to tank) 90% of the content. but once the stars align badly - melee HAS to facetank BS like said GMP leapers in -max map, with desync added to spice things up

how is your build exactly dealing with stuff like this? oh.. it doesnt.

the frog leapers leap, doesnt matter if you are ranged or melee they jump on you.


you are grasping at straws tbh, Ive never once died to the situation u described, or any gmp spell mob on a melee char throughout the whole of 2014 despite playing 1000s of hours. I could describe many theoretical ways a ranged could die from devours where melee would have it easier because they are built to tank point blank.

I say melee would have it easier, properly built/geared melee would have it easier, can't comment about how your particular melee chars would manage. This is the thing with balance in this game, its very hard to have a discussion about it because none of us have tried all the possibilities. Its possible, probable even, to be completely oblivious to the fact things are possible that are entirely different to what you are doing and many times more effective. You can even read about them, try them, find they dont work and not realise they didnt work because you did it wrong and didnt understand properly.


My build at the start of open beta had 2k life and 4k armour in merciless. It was watching people like Nugi and Ganksta Boo playing that made me realise people were getting like 4k life, how? I got all the life nodes I could get how are they doing it? Looked at their trees... oh, right, but they don;t spec that much damage how are they still doing more dps than me? Tried a build similar to nugis... it was shit, didnt work. I could see it working but its like ok, basically he has a lioneyes bow and that is why this works for him, I dont have the gear this is a "oh look at my epeen gear im nugi hai" thing thats just for rich people. Found a lioneyes bow, linked it, still didnt work right... now I know, I know I am being a noob who doesnt get it because I can see every single day Gankstaboo and Nugi working it like champs with the same gear I have.

now I watch streamers and I still learn stuff, half the time, and the other half Im watching thinking 'the reason what you are saying/doing is wrong is because you dont have experience/understanding of this particular thing'. I watch them play all the time, I hear their thoughts on mechanics, I have learned a lot of the lessons of their experiences. They havent watched me so the same doesn't work in reverse. Theres streamers who I respect greatly, have achieved more than me, have taught me so much about the game, who know more than I know, and I still find many moments listening to them while I grind where Im half cringing. I just wish I could jump in their teamspeak and educate them about the subject they are on because they are so wrong and being such noobs.

Thats the kind of game this is, we are all in the dark about large portions of the possibilities. If someone says melee sucks first questions instantly are what are your experiences, what characters, what gear, what level, what problems do you have. Thats not elitism or being a jerk "omg ur opinion doesnt mean shit cuz ur a noob lolz" nothing to do with that at all. If you say theres a problem with X in a game like this you have to be open to the idea you were just doing it wrong, and you should care to compare in detail what you are doing to other people who disagree.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Youve trolled me enough already, i honestly dont think you were ever being serious now. If you seriously wanted to see examples of proper melee builds I have posted them before, you know, you remember.

But please do share your melee builds and gear with us, Im actually curious how you managed to die to random mobs in a lvl71 map and I think it would suit the new comic nature of the discussion.

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lolozori wrote:

Just my position about this.

My main point was about any melee build not only my own, 2h rt, blood magic, all those melee have the same problems but your help concerning my fb build is welcome.

Your build is perfect for a solo HC play style, but Facebreaker attack speed base is very very low. I can t remember the numbers but without Berserker before you can actualy hit a monster, you will get hit multiples times, this will give you much more opportunities to get one shot by elemental damages or bad crit luck.

Also since 1.3 Cyclone skill speed got nerfed AKA now cyclone without taking attack speed using an unarmed build is like playing on temporal chain. You need to take speed nods if you wish to use cyclone.

Unarmed builds can use only few skills, from all the skills, there is infernal blow. Good for solo but will kill you because of reflect and terrible clear speed in party.

Your build will work better using dominating blow because of the skill duration. unfortunately the clear speed will be terrible and in party people will kick you because you are a summon.

Even if I was doing such a build, I would still do 60% less dps than a level 70+ ranged with having to be in a stronger danger position than him (and in POE, the quicker to kill, the safer you are).

The main point is you can create virtualy very tanky builds, take all the life and armor you want but the cost on the tree is unfair compared to the little investment a ranged need to take for the same results.

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lolozori wrote:

Also since 1.3 Cyclone skill speed got nerfed AKA now cyclone without taking attack speed using an unarmed build is like playing on temporal chain. You need to take speed nods if you wish to use cyclone.

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Vincendra wrote:

Most wrong statement made about cyclone. Goes to show you do not research your options and how they work. You do not need any attackspeed witch cyclone and can hit several times per second.

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Vincendra wrote:

So we basically got 2 options to scale the Attack Rate of Cyclone:
1.) Via Attackspeed. The more attackspeed, the faster we pulsate.
2.) Via "Castspeed" of the Cyclone Attack. The more often we "cast" Cyclone, the more often we do the instant first pulse of cyclone.

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Vincendra wrote:

We are using method 2.It costs more Life/second to cast

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sidtherat wrote:

lots of text but not that much substance. truth is harsh

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iamstryker wrote:

Melee builds can be tanky as hell but they will always clear slower than ranged and usually have less overall DPS.

Ranged > Melee

I just made an awesome tanky melee static striker on standard. He does great but my arc witch is still better because she clears maps faster and easier.

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Legatus1982 wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

Youve trolled me enough already, i honestly dont think you were ever being serious now. If you seriously wanted to see examples of proper melee builds I have posted them before, you know, you remember.

But please do share your melee builds and gear with us, Im actually curious how you managed to die to random mobs in a lvl71 map and I think it would suit the new comic nature of the discussion.

The comic nature of the discussion is that we're all still waiting for you to post your bloodlines melee experience

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lolozori wrote:

Whatever, does arguing about cyclone have anything to do with melee ability to take damages?
Melee is still imo in a bad state defensively (particularly the melee life based), cyclone or not.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

the irony tbh. I dont remember dying to elemental spells on my endgame melee characters, my ci witch facetanks crema boss, melees down double dominus palace and courtyard with double strike.. gmp frogs? You think she worries about gmp frogs? Thats almost as funny as Legats statement the other day when boasting the tankiness of his cloak melee "my build can facetank blue devours, I dont know many builds that can do that". I was trying to think of a melee build that couldn't do that but I don't think I've played one since devours were added. Ele spells are dangerous sure, but you talk like all melee die to these a lot and I can't remember a single time it has happened to me while playing a proper melee build properly, and I've played a lot. Thats my experience, that has substance, would you like to tell us about your experiences dying to frogs as melee to add some substance to what you are saying?

a fair statement. I personally find melee have more sheet dps but often effective dps due to travel times unless you are using flicker I suppose. Im in same boat, arc witch, does it get any better? Well theres flamedab prolif, discharge prolif, firetrap prolif... so I guess fire prolif is somewhat as effective if a little bit more sloppy on the clears I feel. CoC is insane at clearing too. Lack of movement skills compared to arc tho, that instant warp is god tier for clear speed.

Thing is my arc witch actually dies now and then, I can picture 2 or 3 occasions where she died properly in a map. All 3 of my main coc characters have a death each that I can remember. If they have an advantage over my melees its clear speed, not that my melee characters have more trouble surviving.

Im on to you m8.