Until melee is fixed, a lot of people will not comeback.

"

WickedSausage wrote:

Tornado shot is OP right now and I know the feel when a ranged can clear rooms with minimal risk. While melee struggle both with dps and survivabilty.


Still my experiance of melee so far in the league haven't been horrible. It still needs buffs buts slowly getting better.
Level 78 two-hander melee in HC atm. No idea how it will work further in on higher level maps.

Tornado shot feels just right as it is but it's far away from overpowered. it would be overpowered if you could kill bosses with the same speed you kill mobs but that's clearly not the case (got a 50kDPS TS myself).

But a lot of other skills need surely a revamp, even way before tornado shot was introduced to the game they'll needed already and urgently a revamp.

"

666lol666 wrote:

@OP
I can agree with many parts of your post BUT:

"

On the contrary, my 98 with 5k life 71/55 block and 10k armor [...] got 1 shooted by a blue elemental monster after I almost riped about 5 time during the map.

What? Seriously? 5k life and 10k armor is just horrible. My blocker had better stats around the mid 80s. And tbh I have no idea how you are able to get so many close to dead situations in a lvl 74 map at charlevel 98? I faceroll all maps up to 76 (after that I have to pay attention) with my blocker and he is still only lvl. 91. But of corse it's a shame that I can do the same maps even more easily with a lvl 83 caster toon. Melee got the short stick but it is not that awful. There have to be something wrong with either your gear and/or your tree. If I had another 7 skillpoints....... *dreaming*

How is 5k horrible? you shouldn't need 5k+ in this game if there was no one-shots.
Look at ranged do they have 5k life? they don t even need 4k.

Should I make a melee witch? it seems to me es witch with 2k life and 10k es would do better than the marauder.

Yeah, they should just make Melee characters TANKIER. TANKIER GOD DAMN IT. Allow builds to handle and tackle the landing blows like frontal fighters actually had to and not be equally or MORE worried about getting hit than a 0 armour ranger.
Edit: 5k hp and 8-10k armour without flask aid is far from horrible BTW.

I will have to agree. I 've quit for over 6 months now because i was bored more than anything else, but i was willing to try again after the new skill tree changes. I only enjoy playing melee, nothing else(and real melee, not ST, reave , lightning strike etc.). So through my 2 acounts i tried to rebuild 6 characters on standard, 3 of them over level 90(with 96 and 95 the highest) and 3 on mid - late 80s. I have really good gear avaiable, including 3 6Ls, legacy BoR, legacy aegis, legacy Soul Taker, Legacy Kaoms, acuity and a mirrored dagger. After rebuilding all 6 character using different melee builds, i was not satisfied with even ONE of them, at least compared to how they performed over 6 months ago and i went back to quiting :P.

Now i think the new weapon passives(like onslaught on kill etc.) are a great idea - a great idea i specifically proposed over 6 months ago, but still the overall changes and the overall state of the game made melee too damn weak. I mean during 1.1, my 95 block/aegis/soul taker/CI Shadow had reached 40K frenzy DPS with splash,30K armour, 71block/65 spell block, 6.3K ES. I mean that, while not even remotely as powerfull as other builds, it was an acceptable level of melee power for a 95 character with really good gear. This character went from weak on 1.2 to completely unplayble on 1.3. The others were fucked up as well.

I still think PoE is a great game, and the main reason for leaving is just being bored, but still, the inability to build satisfactory melee characters with very high level characters and good gear is what still keeps me away from it.

So basically the problem is that armor does fuck all at high level?

IS THIS ANOTHER CLOSET ARMOR THREAD? GGG PLEASE!

"

teacherpeter wrote:

It's just so hard to think of how they could begin to rebalance everything around making melee as efficient at killing and surviving as ranged characters. More Life leech and life gain on hit, boost the armor nodes and the efficiency of resistance nodes, maybe?

They could start by kicking down ranged damage, at least, lowering the reward for the significantly lower risk. No reason bows should have the same base dps as 1h axes when they're so ridiculously safer. Also no reason for the +50% crit chance to exist on Harbinger's and whatnot... hell, as a generality the crit chance/damage on projectile attacks ought to be lowered.

And while they're at it, perhaps they could look into projectile range as well; in all honestly, I'd like to see most projectiles have a set range regardless of their projectile speed. Being able to gib packs when they're not even on screen... I mean, that's like allowing a football game to start before the second team has even taken the field. It's just offering an even greater window of safety to an already very-safe playstyle.




The armor formula could use a redo, having your primary defense crap out specifically against the hits you need to defend against most is just bogus... i wouldn't want it to be static %reduction, but a little modification so that it doesn't drop off so badly versus big hits would be nice.

Armor users also need some better form of elemental damage reduction; evasion gets a chance to avoid elemental attacks and can pick up spell dodge at little cost, energy shield just plain protects against all physical and elemental damage indiscriminately. Meanwhile armor protects against physical damage only, and doesn't even do a great job against that. They could just add in a simple Keystone comparable to Acrobatics that allows a percentage of the character's armor rating to reduce post-resistance elemental/chaos damage, simply enough.

Endurance charges would be a nice option to touch up, too... I know they're not melee-only, but they're definitely more weighted for being a 'secondary' defense for melee types (especially two-handers), and frankly they (like armor) only really do anything against physical damage. Let's face it, people cap their elemental resists without endurance charges; most of the time, the extra elemental resists offered by ECs are worthless, and that's a big area that could use improvement. I think ECs, instead of offering elemental resistances, should reduce incoming elemental/chaos damage by ~5% per charge (this would be multiplicative with resistances). At least then they're doing something against non-physical damage, without needing to dip into the murky waters of +maximum resists.


Shotgunning ought to be reduced if not completely eliminated, too. At least for enemies... i mean, melees already have to worry about being in range of literally everything in order to attack. Do they really need that incoming damage to be amplified even further thanks to shotgunning?


And of course, desync desync desync. No matter what kind of accuracy I've got, or even if I've got RT, most non-AoE/movement skills will just straight up miss the first attack (at least on client-side) against almost every enemy in a mob, because it turns out the enemy was desynced. Even if I've got RT and can one-shot every white/blue enemy I come across (which is exactly what part of my current build does with Frenzy), I've still gotta attack them all twice client-side, because the first one is a near-guaranteed 'desync-miss'.

"

lolozori wrote:

How is 5k horrible? you shouldn't need 5k+ in this game if there was no one-shots.
Look at ranged do they have 5k life? they don t even need 4k.

Of course you need much more life as a melee than as a ranged char. And yes many ranged chars do fine with less than 4k. As a melee you should have about a total of 6,5k (life & es) to feel save. But I don't see how that is not fair it is just part of your build. As a rf char you need about 10% life regen while a melee needs none. Is that unfair too?

"

666lol666 wrote:

"

lolozori wrote:

How is 5k horrible? you shouldn't need 5k+ in this game if there was no one-shots.
Look at ranged do they have 5k life? they don t even need 4k.

Of course you need much more life as a melee than as a ranged char. And yes many ranged chars do fine with less than 4k. As a melee you should have about a total of 6,5k (life & es) to feel save. But I don't see how that is not fair it is just part of your build. As a rf char you need about 10% life regen while a melee needs none. Is that unfair too?

It is obviously unfair because 3k life ranger have more survivability than a 5k+ armored melee. They need less point investment to get 10 time better results.

I don t mind having 0 dps if I am able to take the shots. But even with 10k life and 10k+ armor you would still get one-shot as a normal melee.

ES? ES is a caster defense, how is that even possible to ask melee to use ES for defenses? In order to take ES chest you need a lot of intelligence, things a natural marauder don t have. Marauder type melee have armor and life, but armor sucks, this is the main problem.

Actually a real melee user would need life regen too, unless you create a witch melee using ES, but hey because those hybrids melee/caster had too much regen for rf, they nerfed life regen and reduced even more normal melee defenses. Again, how is ES, intelligence requirement or Witch a melee stereotype?

I should have more survivability with 5k life, 70+ all block, 10k armor than a 3k life-3k evasion ranged.

It in unfair because this game have AI that never target Ranged instead of melee, it will be always the melee toon that will get the heat while have less dps and less survivability.

It is unfair because armor suck compared to intelligent based defenses and it is unfair because most of the nerf in this game are based on melee defenses instead of buffing them.

It is unfair because I need 100 pt in defenses to be able to survive when a ranged just need to put 100pt in dps and have better survivability ( and they don t even need good weapons).


Didn t want to QQ so much, but you asked me about unfairness in this game :P

"

lolozori wrote:

ES? ES is a caster defense, how is that even possible to ask melee to use ES for defenses? In order to take ES chest you need a lot of intelligence, things a natural marauder don t have. Marauder type melee have armor and life, but armor sucks, this is the main problem.

You use a legacy Aegis Aurora without ES? I use a legacy Aegis too but with about 1k ES and about 17k AR. That means I get 680 ES back EVERY TIME I block, which is the main reason that my char is amost unable to dye. You on the other hand without any ES get NOTHING from that legacy Aegis. This single difference alone is almost enough to turn a great tank into mr. squishy.

Edit: And yes the disadvantages of melee chars are unfair! But not because you need a little more life. Situation as it is today melee marauder = meeeeh. Still viable but compared to ranged classes just meeeeh.

"

666lol666 wrote:

"

lolozori wrote:

ES? ES is a caster defense, how is that even possible to ask melee to use ES for defenses? In order to take ES chest you need a lot of intelligence, things a natural marauder don t have. Marauder type melee have armor and life, but armor sucks, this is the main problem.

You use a legacy Aegis Aurora without ES? I use a legacy Aegis too but with about 1k ES and about 17k AR. That means I get 680 ES back EVERY TIME I block, which is the main reason that my char is amost unable to dye. You on the other hand without any ES get NOTHING from that legacy Aegis. This single difference alone is almost enough to turn a great tank into mr. squishy.

Edit: And yes the disadvantages of melee chars are unfair! But not because you need a little more life. Situation as it is today melee marauder = meeeeh. Still viable but compared to ranged classes just meeeeh.

It is very difficult as a facebreaker to get es+block+life+dps+resist because the glove have no life or res or es,or even good armor and you need phy and life on all the jewelries (no life or res on abyssus, Bor have life but no res and you loose chest res).

So in the end after taking life nods, block nods, armor nods, some damage nods you can t take es nods, they are too far from the marauder.

Before 1.3 I could let BOR alone and take a 6l carcass + abyssus or this recolored to get 1k+ es and full block, but after the block nerf, with Bor and full block I can t have more than 600 es ( when using aegis+rainbow)



I am aware facebreaker build is a niche build and other melee can have potentially more defenses, but any melee build still get one-shooted every now and then.


Yes marauders are really in a bad spot those days, like duelist. The life regen nerf on the tree was really bad for life based toons and the tree should have way more armor nods. Armor to be effective should be at what? 30k? already 10k ES make you quasi immortal.

Yes 10k armor with 5 endurance charge can give you 60-ish phy damage reduction, but ES user can also take endurance charge and so they again have more defenses than Armor/block users.

Comparatively you need 3 time more armor to have the survivability of a ES user, minus armor can t protect you from elemental damages.