Until melee is fixed, a lot of people will not comeback.

"

sidtherat wrote:

While i agree that melee is a dumpster concept right now the smoke mine fiasco.. was avoidable.

FrEEZING CANNOT be avoided via smoke mine. Flask can unfreeze you and then mine should go off.. but..

Smoke mine is unreliable (desync plus LoS) and can be destroyed by random spell. Leap slam/whirl are at least reliable (without desync). And freezing boxes i reroll anyway as the risk is huge and rewards abysmal.





I still want the 'melee is ok' club tell me what 'layered defences' are there vs SPELLS. So no talk about armor, evasion, end charges etc sweet and cute phys mitigation/attack mitigation.

Melee has to facetank BS spell combos (-max, gmp, arctic breath or -max powerful crit freezepulsers with gmp etc you all know this stuff). Ranged offscreen most of it. How exactly - except for reroling map- melee player can 'handle' it? You cannot use 3 res flasks at the same time, your block with saffaels is not good enough and relying on spell dosge requires serious passive investment and pretty much boils down to one build (ranger) that is much better as a bowman than melee anyway.. or should we all play max block/spell block snails?

Or just admit that this area is melee's greatest weakness and roll a ST dagger and have fun and safe experience

Ya I'm already aware of the box thing, I was getting careless because the flickering was boring and dumb. That's why I wasn't really worried or mad when I died. Normally I would skip such a box or go back for a thawing flask. Going back to making a trapper I think, at least it will be viable.

smoke mine is not good, lightning warp is the way to deal with boxes. Anything that involves an action taken after the box is open is flawed and vulnerable to freeze, stun etc. You stand right beside the box, cast warp on the edge of your screen then click the box before the warp goes off. The fact it was cast before the box was opened prevents anything inside from interrupting the cast like a stun or freeze, your stunned, frozen body will be warped to safety where you can pop your antifreeze pot then tackle the mobs as you see fit.


elemental spell mobs just arnt really that scary tbh. Bosses sure, they are can a nightmare, but mobs? Not rly man, I'm not worried about elemental spell mobs with melee they just get blasted down with dps. Running -max gmp high level map is questionable for anything short of a GG character, Id sooner take my ci melee witch into that map than my arcer because -max with 20k non crit arc and reflect mobs? Thats way more dangerous than throwing a spell block, 10.5k es, instagib any mob within melee range dagger witch in there. Honestly though both could clear the map fairly confidently without dying. Is that what all this comes down to? What about a -max gmp map? sure that is generally harder for melee than ranged, Im not sure it constitutes a flaw in the game though to pick such a specific situation. What about vulnerability monster damage double boss jungle valley? Thats easier for melee, doesnt really mean anything in the wider picture of game balance. In the last year I dont think I have ever died to elemental spells on a melee character so how big a deal can it be?

"

Snorkle_uk wrote:

smoke mine is not good, lightning warp is the way to deal with boxes. Anything that involves an action taken after the box is open is flawed and vulnerable to freeze, stun etc. You stand right beside the box, cast warp on the edge of your screen then click the box before the warp goes off. The fact it was cast before the box was opened prevents anything inside from interrupting the cast like a stun or freeze, your stunned, frozen body will be warped to safety where you can pop your antifreeze pot then tackle the mobs as you see fit.


elemental spell mobs just arnt really that scary tbh. Bosses sure, they are can a nightmare, but mobs? Not rly man, I'm not worried about elemental spell mobs with melee they just get blasted down with dps. Running -max gmp high level map is questionable for anything short of a GG character, Id sooner take my ci melee witch into that map than my arcer because -max with 20k non crit arc and reflect mobs? Thats way more dangerous than throwing a spell block, 10.5k es, instagib any mob within melee range dagger witch in there. Honestly though both could clear the map fairly confidently without dying. Is that what all this comes down to? What about a -max gmp map? sure that is generally harder for melee than ranged, Im not sure it constitutes a flaw in the game though to pick such a specific situation. What about vulnerability monster damage double boss jungle valley? Thats easier for melee, doesnt really mean anything in the wider picture of game balance. In the last year I dont think I have ever died to elemental spells on a melee character so how big a deal can it be?

Idk, it looked to me like smoke mine activates before the box open just like lightning warp. You place the mine, then press d and there is a delay. You click the box before the delay ends and get moved.
Doesn't matter I knew there was a risk of death and didn't care either way, the build was shit. I'll have to slot in extra blue gem space though from now on I guess.

to be honest i gave up on them being able to balance anything at all in this game

i just play the game now

personally i went melee anyway for standard because meh i can

the problem i see with melee is how much more difficult it is compared to other methods in terms of damage / gear to bring it up to spec

but this is not saying that melee is necessarily bad but how expensive it is to be good and how much harsher/harder it is on builds that have to confront enemies up close

also take into consideration how armor while not completely useless is not very useful





so 220k cyclone tooltip / 10200 hp and does uber atziri

so whats the problem?

problem is that it needs BIS or very very good gear...

i wouldn't attempt near the same thing on new leagues

well maybe because i like melee it just feels more satisfying

but problem is when a new league starts and nobody has any gear or even consider mid tier gear

other builds elemental/spell/bow etc will outshine melee no matter what also keep in mind the fact certain builds dont need to get close to do damage so for new leagues melee is not that great imo

so how can it be balanced?

for the past year or so i have read tons of ways that people have thought to fix melee
specifically 2h melee

but none of these ideas even the moderately good ideas that were presented by other players were not responded to / acknowledged / or even brought up by anybody from GGG that i know of

lets not even get into the fact of how

best 1h? = dagger
best 2h? = staff

and nothing else comes even close.

so honestly i just dont give a flying fuck anymore

"

Pepock wrote:

to be honest i gave up on them being able to balance anything at all in this game

i just play the game now

personally i went melee anyway for standard because meh i can

the problem i see with melee is how much more difficult it is compared to other methods in terms of damage / gear to bring it up to spec

but this is not saying that melee is necessarily bad but how expensive it is to be good and how much harsher/harder it is on builds that have to confront enemies up close

also take into consideration how armor while not completely useless is not very useful





so 220k cyclone tooltip / 10200 hp and does uber atziri

so whats the problem?

problem is that it needs BIS or very very good gear...

i wouldn't attempt near the same thing on new leagues

well maybe because i like melee it just feels more satisfying

but problem is when a new league starts and nobody has any gear or even consider mid tier gear

other builds elemental/spell/bow etc will outshine melee no matter what also keep in mind the fact certain builds dont need to get close to do damage so for new leagues melee is not that great imo

so how can it be balanced?

for the past year or so i have read tons of ways that people have thought to fix melee
specifically 2h melee

but none of these ideas even the moderately good ideas that were presented by other players were not responded to / acknowledged / or even brought up by anybody from GGG that i know of

lets not even get into the fact of how

best 1h? = dagger
best 2h? = staff

and nothing else comes even close.

so honestly i just dont give a flying fuck anymore

That about sums it up. Your gear must be sick. See, you can still pull that shit off in standard. Some of the gear that makes that possible is either legacy that isn't even available in the new leagues anymore or it's mirrored gear that will never be seen in a temporary league.

Would a Marauder using 2h Maces with Molten Strike and the tree linked always get one shot at high levels?
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEBe4yExH7gdn-eV-RRl3kJljkO6wmFUtlhrY3Pfnas6hhR5ndTOzuexZSHtC8hNEE_37IZLiftBg7UfAn2Vw3SIZ7NIq84U3bnpzDynG6X974B5-StGelgxGCRZ1g26GSjGlVhIakneHqplIdqhNnKkL2BmSsV7Lkd705eEyFVLPuKIicgxPY8Lcau_TBqBIiPGuRqpT0PHM4rUA3N_lQkizqd_9Nr2YY7NI5QR-8Om1gx-3_jXz8UIMbYFE38S7yfGJHyQYIHr2xo8nxLlnTwH6IAtz7-Cti98kU64aZXMZ4S4aLq3D0HdcCmkc5gSwUt

"

Paxmilitaris wrote:

Would a Marauder using 2h Maces with Molten Strike and the tree linked always get one shot at high levels?
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgEBe4yExH7gdn-eV-RRl3kJljkO6wmFUtlhrY3Pfnas6hhR5ndTOzuexZSHtC8hNEE_37IZLiftBg7UfAn2Vw3SIZ7NIq84U3bnpzDynG6X974B5-StGelgxGCRZ1g26GSjGlVhIakneHqplIdqhNnKkL2BmSsV7Lkd705eEyFVLPuKIicgxPY8Lcau_TBqBIiPGuRqpT0PHM4rUA3N_lQkizqd_9Nr2YY7NI5QR-8Om1gx-3_jXz8UIMbYFE38S7yfGJHyQYIHr2xo8nxLlnTwH6IAtz7-Cti98kU64aZXMZ4S4aLq3D0HdcCmkc5gSwUt

Would it matter if he was level 100? e.e

Idk about ARPG games, but in a lot of other games I've played ranged vs melee was largely balanced by a few very similar methods.

In SWTOR, ranged characters mostly had to remain stationary to do any damage. They can move and not do damage, or hold still and become turrets, with a ramp-up time or setup time in most cases, limiting their usefulness on the move greatly but giving high dps while stationary or giving the ability to lock down certain areas.
Some DOT-based builds were extremely mobile while also ranged and had the highest paper dps output, but came at the trade-off that most of their damage took 18+ seconds to actualize and much of that was never realized at all because the target had died less than halfway through the dots.

It all ended up balancing fairly well barring any "poor balance decisions" that could easily be fixed with a numerical adjustment:
Melee did bursty/high dps damage while being very mobile and had a lot of utility, but couldn't hit from range
Ranged did decent damage, but usually not the "best" damage, and required the caster to remain stationary and often times had a buildup before the top-end damage could occur. Either that, or they just flat out did less damage.
Dot builds of both types did very good paper dps, but often lower "real" damage output and werent as good at bursting targets down as most lower dps, burst specs

In other games, melee just flat out did more dps, had more *important* utility benefits such as crowd control, or was extremely tanky and just did not die, like ever.

Some of this probably won't be allowed in POE though due to poor design choices, like alt-f4 balancing.

IDK, I'm not going to take the time to make this post readable like I usually do, but some of this stuff would be easily done in POE.

"

Ashen_Shugar_IV wrote:

"

Paxmilitaris wrote:

Would a Marauder using 2h Maces with Molten Strike and the tree linked always get one shot at high levels?

Would it matter if he was level 100? e.e

What???

"

Paxmilitaris wrote:

"

Ashen_Shugar_IV wrote:

"

Paxmilitaris wrote:

Would a Marauder using 2h Maces with Molten Strike and the tree linked always get one shot at high levels?

Would it matter if he was level 100? e.e

What???

hes asking why you would build it as if you are going to go level 100 you used up all the points meaning you plan to skip all bandit rewards and get passive points as well? missing

for example the 18% damage given from Cruel Bandit and instead getting a crappier dualist side 10% or the scion life wheel 12%/armor or how you are skipping RT yet completely avoiding all crit nodes?

also 2h staff is the best, even a 400 dps staff will out damage a 600 dps maul in the end due to the crit as well as get small block chance

the tree doesn't look very good

i would help make one for you but i dont know your budget/build/planned items