Do we expect too much from GGG?

In any long-term game the 'I don't love you anymore' response is both common and expected by developers.

For every player banned because they were one of the 4% (of sociopaths, population-wide), there's generally no return. When did you ever start playing a game because you heard someone got banned from it? So it makes sense to go lightly with banhammerz. No benefit in fewer players.

For every person who gets online and rages about what GGG (or any company) has done to THEIR EXPERIENCE by not fixing X, Y or Z with a new patch and ragequits, new and interesting content may very well entice 5 new people to play. Even if only 2 stay, that's a net gain.

The game is inordinately complex. "You didn't fix what I wanted you to fix/make the game the way I prefer to play" is common, and not particularly useful feedback.

I've played MUDs before where I banned people over 10 times only to have them come back. Their playing the game didn't really affect my enjoyment of the game; moreso over time anyone starts to resent games because they're never as fun on day 1000 as day 1. So I quit those games and started PoE ;)

It's easy to lose perspective when you're on the front line every day. Sometimes you need to step back to regain composure. That's not abandoning your passion, it's more like recharging your batteries. We are not automatons whose purpose is to play POE, so taking a break can be good.

People can expect whatever they want and judge GGG however they want. Nobody can stop us. However, criticisms that aren't constructive will hold less weight. Unless you think very little of yourself or your opinions, it's in your own interest to criticize constructively. That's not so much directed at OP as it is a general comment to everyone.

Having said all that, it is puzzling why GGG wouldn't take a harsher stance against people who intentionally crash the game's servers for personal benefit. That's almost like inviting the fox into the hen house. What's to be gained?

"

Charanjaydemyr wrote:

"

Raycheetah wrote:

If the road to hell s paved with good intentions, then GGG is building a superhighway. They work SO hard to deliver a quality game, yet all anyone ever seems capable of talking about is the (relatively benign) problems with PoE. GGG is possibly the most engaged, ethical, and genuinely nice buncha game developers out there. Do they bite off more than they can chew? Constantly. Do they screw up sometimes? Naturally. Do they own up to and correct the mistakes they can? Automatically.

GGG has spoiled us. Shame on them, right? =^[.]^=

Couldn't have put it better, and I hope you know that really means something.

Sleeping in a bed of roses is my impression of the post.

They've given me nothing and taken me nowhere without the hope that I'll be supporting the game and their jobs.I am not spoilt by the content they release as the content is a sales pitch to obtain financial support,of which I will if the content interests me or is optimizing for playability on a wider range of systems.

I don't expect bells and whistles,I don't expect handouts/freebies,I'll slap a grand on a alpha/beta if I'm overly interested in the title and the developers future.

Heh GGG aren't *garage band* status anymore.Stop apologizing as if they are amateur players,they're competing with and against the big boys and obviously trying to make a living out of the product they distribute,it's gone way beyond *sharing the game we'd like to play* ...

As an average everyday person I adore and respect the GGG guys and gurls for where they came from and what they've done.I've shown my appreciation in many ways over the years,I've also been open and honest about POEs problems (technical and game mechanics)and hung around,dealing with them in the best way I can suffer ... because I lurv the GGG so much.

From a gamers personal perspective however an Engaged,ethical(stash tabs are still debatable and so is a slap on the wrist for contempt of cheating,exploiting,RMT),genuinley nice bunch of developers is good and all,but in a game that promotes competition by its most important game design focus "trade" (trade is competitive by nature) none of those things are much comfort when the shit hits the fan and action taken is either slow in proceeding,ineffective or no action at all.

Expectations ....

While GGG may not expect or require me to pay for their product,in return for my support I do have some basic expectations,tech and game mechanics wise that need to be met,those expectations aren't met,I no longer support.

That either of you would *expect* others not to have some basic expectations is in itself too high an expectation.

EDIT: Perhaps biting off more than one can chew ... constantly... may need a rethink in lifestyle.

EDIT2: So as not to seem like a hater,I'll add that GGG support is second to none and a pleasure to deal with.They're prompt,friendly and caring.


=)

There's a considerable amount that can fit between '(having some/*my*) expectations' and 'no expectations'.

;)

Compared to what's going on in other games, yes we expect too much. GGG has spoiled us and therefore we hold them to very high standards.

People using words like 'enslaved to the economy' really baffle me. Get some perspective lol.

"

jdilly23 wrote:

Do you genuinely believe that if 100% of the community shared your attitude the game would have come this far?

If everyone just gave them a big virtual hug and told them they were amazing no matter what, would they have any motivation to do well?

Serious question.

There's a lot of difference however between fair criticism and most of the bile spewed forth in these forums every day. The first is acceptable and helps drive development. The second serves no purpose whatsoever.

"

LennyLen wrote:

"

jdilly23 wrote:

Do you genuinely believe that if 100% of the community shared your attitude the game would have come this far?

If everyone just gave them a big virtual hug and told them they were amazing no matter what, would they have any motivation to do well?

Serious question.

There's a lot of difference however between fair criticism and most of the bile spewed forth in these forums every day. The first is acceptable and helps drive development. The second serves no purpose whatsoever.

Absolutely, but neither does praise where praise isnt deserved.

Extreme opinions are always put forth to be exactly that, extreme. They arent constructive, they arent meant to be.
For every asshole that mindlessly flames GGG for every little thing they dislike there will be someone who puts them on a pedestal and pretends they are flawless.

I think Charan nailed it, they were amazing indie developers. They arent indie developers anymore, they arent developing an indie game. Lots of us still expect them to be amazing and that makes for sad pandas.

I dont know; on one hand you should look at things from GGG perspective, and when you do that it is just amazing how much they have accomplished with such great success. Nothing can be said apart from "kudos".

On the other hand I look at it from the end user perspective, which is me; I have been served the same product with all of its faults with new problems introduced without solving old ones for over 2 years. When compared to other games I can play for enjoying my time, no online game keeps their technical problems as long as PoE, and they constantly improve quality of life features (which are very easy to do). And for Single player games I can find relevant mods, or I can make my own mods to fix/improve things like bugs/UI features etc.

In PoE only QoL improvement tools (like item filter, particle limiter) are made by hackers and are considered bannable offense. And GGG doesn't seem to want to even separate buff/debuff icons on top corner.

So if I look at things form their side, yes we do expect too much; if I look at things from user side I think we are way too easy on them.

In regards to exploit; I think about similar situations in other economy driven games I play, user were WAY more aggressive about demanding retribution, and the banhammers are just too unforgiving and heavy compared to PoE. And in LoL even the tiniest of bugs that effect gameplay even the slightest are made #1 priority. If anything like desynch existed in that game people would be asking for blood and leaving the game without 2nd thoughts. Yet we accept PoE as it is with all its faults. That must be love.

Stuff like this happens, every game designed by humans may have flaws, the way problems are handle is what you should focus on and i think it was handled pretty well, they did what they could as fast as they could what can you ask more? Now if we expect too much? You will always expect more from something you love, its only natural but you should express you criticism in a positive way, not ranting here like a lot of people do. I dont think GGG will be bother with people asking for new content, criticizing some flaws or suggesting new ideas as long as people keep a positive attitude and language

"

jdilly23 wrote:

"

Raycheetah wrote:

If the road to hell s paved with good intentions, then GGG is building a superhighway. They work SO hard to deliver a quality game, yet all anyone ever seems capable of talking about is the (relatively benign) problems with PoE. GGG is possibly the most engaged, ethical, and genuinely nice buncha game developers out there. Do they bite off more than they can chew? Constantly. Do they screw up sometimes? Naturally. Do they own up to and correct the mistakes they can? Automatically.

GGG has spoiled us. Shame on them, right? =^[.]^=

Do you genuinely believe that if 100% of the community shared your attitude the game would have come this far?

If everyone just gave them a big virtual hug and told them they were amazing no matter what, would they have any motivation to do well?

Serious question.

On topic, I think we would be expecting WAY too much from GGG if they didnt set themselves up for this.

You cant just promise everyone the best game ever through the guise of absolutely amazing development and say fuck it and start doing something else while expecting the same feedback.

Anyone who actually gives GGG a hard time (for more than a couple threads before rage quitting) has been here for a long time. Long enough to see how awesome GGG used to be. Long enough to see GGGs old vision of PoE.

Oh, look, my evil twin. You make a point, but it isn't the point of this discussion. You can pour your poison elsewhere. =^[.]^=