People do realise that Daggers do more damage than 2Handers because of crit right?

"

Chundadragon wrote:

Very debatable.

Demon Dagger is very slow and good at dealing huge hits - good for flicker strike.

Ambusher is very fast and good at scaling auras - good for spectral throw.

You may argue from a design perspective, but from an actual gameplay point of view - everything is there already.

That's also "very debatable".

From a gameplay point of view:
I hate the "machine gun" style of attacking in PoE, it looks just silly how fast your character can attack. I'd really prefer hitting slower, but harder, but there's no point in doing so, all you are doing is wasting DpS.
There's no point in not using faster attacks + multistrike in your main attack, there's no alternative for the attack speed suffix, the slower, but higher damage weapons are worse in terms of DpS, and that is not even factoring in other sweet benefits like Life gain on hit, constant life leech, flat damage sources from auras, jewelry...

If the game would be patched to something like this, with best possible gear:

2h mace build: 60k Dps, 1.5 attacks per second with 40k damage per hit.
1h axe build: 60k DpS, 3 attacks per second with 20k damage per hit.
1h dagger build: 60k DpS, 2 attacks per second, one of each being a crit, iE 40k on one hit, 20k on the other.
Dualwielding two swords: 60k DpS, 4 attacks per second, 15k per hit.

.... then I would be satisfied.

Right now it is more like this:

Non-crit onehander: 20-30k DpS.
Twohander: 50-60k DpS.
Dagger: 200-300k DpS.
...and this just doesn't feel fair.

"

Peterlerock wrote:

Right now it is more like this:

Non-crit onehander: 20-30k DpS.
Twohander: 50-60k DpS.
Dagger: 200-300k DpS.
...and this just doesn't feel fair.

Yes, but that is hardly the mods fault - see passive tree nodes, crit, etc

I was referring to your idea of splitting weapons by mods into fast soft hitters and slow hard hitters - there's no need for any more - already exists in the bases. Compare daggers, they are all 550 average in mirror quality and have different speeds. Same with axes and swords.

proving a point:

white Vaal Axe. level 64. highest damage 2-handed axe.
133.2 DPS. 85–141 base damage. 1.15 APS. 5% crit chance

......

if you don't think that's screaming "BUFF THIS!" more than anything else, considering going 2-handed in the game right now is like shooting yourself in the foot, and going 2-handed with Resolute Technique is shooting both feet - please raise your hand.

"

johnKeys wrote:

proving a point:

white Vaal Axe. level 64. highest damage 2-handed axe.
133.2 DPS. 85–141 base damage. 1.15 APS. 5% crit chance

......

if you don't think that's screaming "BUFF THIS!" more than anything else, considering going 2-handed in the game right now is like shooting yourself in the foot, and going 2-handed with Resolute Technique is shooting both feet - please raise your hand.

Literally can't believe what I just read.

white Infernal Axe. level 69. highest damage 1-handed axe.
75 DPS. 45–75 base damage. 1.25 APS. 5% crit chance

I'm going to raise my hand.

"

Chundadragon wrote:

I'm going to raise my hand.

high level white 1-handed swords.
averaging around 64 DPS. many have an awesome 1.6-1.7 APS. and best of all: increased Global Critical Strike Multiplier or increased accuracy implicit.

high level white daggers.
also around 63ish DPS. up to 1.6 APS. base crit chance around 7%. insane implicit of up to +80% global critical strike chance.

do you understand my point now?

buff two-handers!

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Chundadragon wrote:

I'm going to raise my hand.

high level white 1-handed swords.
averaging around 64 DPS. many have an awesome 1.6-1.7 APS. and best of all: increased Global Critical Strike Multiplier or increased accuracy implicit.

high level white daggers.
also around 63ish DPS. up to 1.6 APS. base crit chance around 7%. insane implicit of up to +80% global critical strike chance.

do you understand my point now?

buff two-handers!

If you're smart with swords/axes - you take RT. Nice crit implicit. Nice accuracy implicit. RIP.

The dagger's implicit hardly matters - 80% global is nothing, most dagger users are overcapped heavily - you get that with 3 points on the tree, different reason they are good.

Then we look at 2h weapons again, 133 DPS - maybe you think that's not so much of a bad deal now?

"

Chundadragon wrote:

"

johnKeys wrote:

"

Chundadragon wrote:

I'm going to raise my hand.

high level white 1-handed swords.
averaging around 64 DPS. many have an awesome 1.6-1.7 APS. and best of all: increased Global Critical Strike Multiplier or increased accuracy implicit.

high level white daggers.
also around 63ish DPS. up to 1.6 APS. base crit chance around 7%. insane implicit of up to +80% global critical strike chance.

do you understand my point now?

buff two-handers!

If you're smart with swords/axes - you take RT. Nice crit implicit. Nice accuracy implicit. RIP.

The dagger's implicit hardly matters - 80% global is nothing, most dagger users are overcapped heavily - you get that with 3 points on the tree, different reason they are good.

Then we look at 2h weapons again, 133 DPS - maybe you think that's not so much of a bad deal now?

Because 8% free crit is so very trivial (It's not). It's not helping that you also get high APS.

"

Because 8% free crit is so very trivial (It's not). It's not helping that you also get high APS.

Its 80% of the base crit chance right?

so thats 6% on a non crit rolled dagger and 4% +-? on a 5% spell?

It's quite sufficient :'), nothing to disregard, like crit multy or accuracy on other weapon bases because of the prevalence of RT. (aldo RT is not a requirement)

However i disagree with both of you (chunda and john)

chunda because 80% is not something "trivial" in any way you look at it compared to other bases and there bonuses i would put it among the best if not THE best.(depending on play-style this vary's for me)

And john,

because upping the damage of 2-handers would be the dead for 2-hand builds, literally.
(reflect combined with the least defenses available)

Peace,

-Boem-

Demon daggers and platinum kris',cap their DPS at around 475-480. That should be the limit. I agree that daggers should not reach 2+ base attack speed, like ambushers. Plus to everybody who still claims that the main issue is not the scaling of auras, but daggers themselves, look at mirrored ambushers. For low life users, wrath fang, which has 402 DPS and 78% spell damage, gives them higher DPS than loath bane, that has 550+ DPS.