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Xero_Kill wrote:
Every game I have ever played with an AH has seen no trouble in selling mid-tier gear. In fact, I have always made my money in any of the games selling mostly mediocre gear because it moves so fast. And quite honestly, if YOU are having trouble selling mediocre gear it is because of the lack of availability or because what you are selling is garbage, not mediocre. I WOULD have bought your sub-par boots of suckitude, but you weren't online and by the time you were online I already bought or found something else, or I outleveled it. I can't count the number of leveling items I would have bought from players on POE.XYZ but they weren't online or didn't respond to my whispers. If they had their stuff on an AH, they would be 10 - 20c richer and I would have the items I wanted and I would be out there saving Wraeclast.
Excellent post. You bring up one particular thing I dislike about the current trade situation, in how it disproportionately benefits those with no life. Not only does a time limited player have fewer wares to pedal, but they also have shorter shop hours, meaning they either a) have a lesser chance to make the sale or b) have to price their items lower than someone who can be online most of the time. It just exacerbates the wealth gap in PoE, and puts those awesome items further out of reach.
No. Calm down. Learn to enjoy losing.
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Posted byb15h09#7812on Jul 2, 2014, 4:15:04 PM
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Xero_Kill wrote:
The entire crux of the argument seems to be that there are only two kinds of players in this game: scrubs who don't have two alterations to rub together and filthy RMTers with millions of exalts to waste. The argument that "the little guy can't sell his mediocre gear" is total crap. There will ALWAYS be more people in the middle ground than in either of the two groups listed above. The mediocre gear will sell like hotcakes because most people wont have the cash to reach the godly gear, and rightfully so, just as it is now. The middle class will have to settle for the less than perfect gear and lower tier uniques, and later in the game you will spend ridiculous amounts of currency for minor upgrades. Most people wont even bother with the last part and will simply roll a new character when they can't really move forward any more. ...
This post nails it. Well done.
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Hilbert wrote:
ONE reason D3 sucked was the AH.
It's not the only reason.
ONE reason I don't like PoE now is because it's a tradebased and not a playbased(crafting, playing) game.
I don't like trading. In CB I never needed to trade.
Drop rates are bad.
Crafting is bad because mods don't have got equal chances.
The problem you, and others toeing this line have is that you don't know what kind of game you are looking for. You want single player games that are balanced around the idea that you will be the only person to generate any of the content. This is NOT that game. This is an MMO ARPG and IS balanced around the idea that hundreds of people are playing this game and generating the contents in the world. The drop rates are balanced around the idea that it takes hundreds of people taking hundreds of pulls on the slot machine to generate a single "win". The win being a decent item worthy of wear or trade.
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Posted byXero_Kill#3290on Jul 2, 2014, 4:44:55 PM
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Here are my thoughts on how a in game trading shop could work.
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/785343
It sums up my thoughts really well on the matter.
IGN JimansNotSummoner
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Posted byJiman#2422on Jul 2, 2014, 4:47:55 PM
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Xero_Kill wrote:
The entire crux of the argument seems to be that there are only two kinds of players in this game: scrubs who don't have two alterations to rub together and filthy RMTers with millions of exalts to waste. The argument that "the little guy can't sell his mediocre gear" is total crap. There will ALWAYS be more people in the middle ground than in either of the two groups listed above. The mediocre gear will sell like hotcakes because most people wont have the cash to reach the godly gear, and rightfully so, just as it is now. The middle class will have to settle for the less than perfect gear and lower tier uniques, and later in the game you will spend ridiculous amounts of currency for minor upgrades. Most people wont even bother with the last part and will simply roll a new character when they can't really move forward any more.
All of this ALREADY happens on POE.XYZ. You see the items you want but can't have because you don't have the 30 exalts they want for it, so you settle for the items the little guy is selling at 3 exalts because they don't have the best rolls, or lack in a few key areas. Then you play with your upgraded-but-not-perfect gear until you have the currency for that perfectly rolled item. The little guy will flourish with an AH because there will be more access for all to the item pool that exists and the middle ground is way more occupied than either side of the equation.
Every game I have ever played with an AH has seen no trouble in selling mid-tier gear. In fact, I have always made my money in any of the games selling mostly mediocre gear because it moves so fast. And quite honestly, if YOU are having trouble selling mediocre gear it is because of the lack of availability or because what you are selling is garbage, not mediocre. I WOULD have bought your sub-par boots of suckitude, but you weren't online and by the time you were online I already bought or found something else, or I outleveled it. I can't count the number of leveling items I would have bought from players on POE.XYZ but they weren't online or didn't respond to my whispers. If they had their stuff on an AH, they would be 10 - 20c richer and I would have the items I wanted and I would be out there saving Wraeclast.
And for the argument of item flippers.... so what? They already exist in POE and every game has people that have more fun sitting in front of the AH and buying / selling items just to see their stack of money grow. That is fun for them and you should be ashamed for not wanting them to enjoy the game too. You enjoy it your way, they will enjoy it their way. That is how economies work.
As for the argument of inflation. Standard is not inflated because of anything other than being permanent and for being the dumping ground for every dead hardcore character and the remnants of the 4 month leagues. The economy will bear what it can handle and that is determined by the amount of currency available at any given time. The 4 month leagues will always have a better economy because they are flushed into standard every 4 months, and inflation will occur every 4 months in standard as a crapload of new items and currency are dumped into it.
TL;DR - L2Economy
And i thought i would play the game, killing monster, finding items, upgrade my old shit. But i guess i´m a out-dying race.
What can never be lent or earned?
Somewhat, that devours everyone and everything:
A tree that rush. A bird that sings. It eat bones and smite the hardest stones.
Masticate every sword. Shatters every shrine. It defeat mighty kings and carry mountains on lightly wings.
What am i?
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Posted bySpysong192#7559on Jul 2, 2014, 4:55:24 PM
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Spysong192 wrote:
And i thought i would play the game, killing monster, finding items, upgrade my old shit. But i guess i´m a out-dying race.
Take this to heart:
The sooner you just accept trading is the best method, and learn to use the tools out there right now... and learn to accept you will absolutely have to trade/run a shop in order to have any sense of "time to rewards" joy - the better off, and happier you will be.
It sucks man - but honestly you will be happier to go at it from that vantage and kind of live with it that they balance around trading, and that you will be much more "rich" for your time investment if you take on trade.
Last edited by Isbox1#3280 on Jul 2, 2014, 4:58:59 PM
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Posted byIsbox1#3280on Jul 2, 2014, 4:58:13 PM
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The solution is simple.
Have an economy based version of PoE with more efficient trading (something closer to an AH but not quite), and have an optional non-economy based version of PoE as well.
Everyone becomes a happier customer and GGG makes better bank because of it!
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Posted byDeletedon Jul 2, 2014, 5:04:03 PM
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Spysong192 wrote:
And i thought i would play the game, killing monster, finding items, upgrade my old shit. But i guess i´m a out-dying race.
There is nothing that says you can't do just that, but if you want to do that in POE then you are a glutton for punishment, and that is your prerogative. Like I said in a previous post, this is not a single player game and as such it is not balanced around making your singular experience the most rewarding. If you abhor trading so much then I would suggest you stick to single player games as they are balanced around your desired style of play. When you play games that allow for trading and have tons of people playing at once, you must expect that trade will be a part of that system.
Again, there is nothing keeping you from playing self-found, except your own frustration at insisting that you play an MMO all by yourself.
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Posted byXero_Kill#3290on Jul 2, 2014, 5:26:32 PM
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TEBird wrote:
Auction houses/trade systems/trade automation etc. etc. don't ruin games. Bad design ruins games.
Good luck balancing a game that centers around drops with a system that can instantaneously give them every item in the game.
So just make drops less frequent right? Great. Now every single item you ever find will guaranteed to be coming from the AH just like in Diablo 3 it will feel like you're only playing to farm currency. I can tell you now I have found several valuable items, self found. It's a great feeling. AH deprives you of this feeling.
So just makes drops easier so you can still experience the joy of finding items yourself, right? Wrong. The problem with this is that increasing drop rates proportionately makes it easier to obtain the exact same item on the AH, again, making the AH vastly more desirable way to obtain the item.
There's no happy medium, either and pursuing one is a fool's errand.
Some players mistakenly believe an indexer is the same thing as an AH since it gives players wide access to all the items and in that regard and that regard alone it is true. An indexer is like an AH however it's evidently not the same or else you wouldn't be asking for an AH because an AH trivializes the entire game and you know it.
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Posted byterrorist#7255on Jul 2, 2014, 5:28:22 PM
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Xero_Kill wrote:
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Spysong192 wrote:
And i thought i would play the game, killing monster, finding items, upgrade my old shit. But i guess i´m a out-dying race.
There is nothing that says you can't do just that, but if you want to do that in POE then you are a glutton for punishment, and that is your prerogative. Like I said in a previous post, this is not a single player game and as such it is not balanced around making your singular experience the most rewarding. If you abhor trading so much then I would suggest you stick to single player games as they are balanced around your desired style of play. When you play games that allow for trading and have tons of people playing at once, you must expect that trade will be a part of that system.
Again, there is nothing keeping you from playing self-found, except your own frustration at insisting that you play an MMO all by yourself.
It´s okay PoE is a good multiplayer trade simulator that got a action rpg wrapped around it´s core. Nothing wrong with it.
What can never be lent or earned?
Somewhat, that devours everyone and everything:
A tree that rush. A bird that sings. It eat bones and smite the hardest stones.
Masticate every sword. Shatters every shrine. It defeat mighty kings and carry mountains on lightly wings.
What am i?
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Posted bySpysong192#7559on Jul 2, 2014, 5:42:07 PM
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