PSA: AHs don't ruin games, Designers ruin games

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terrorist wrote:

*Snip* AH deprives you of this feeling. *Snip*

Correction: It deprives YOU of this feeling, not everyone. You do not represent anyone but yourself, so speak for yourself.

I for one have no issue at all with trading for my gear. I feel good when my build comes together and I can face-roll through the enemies. I feel good when I get a decent drop and can sell it to someone else, which enables their build, which gives me the currency to min-max my build a little further. Especially since finding that one perfect item yourself is nearly impossible. You will find 100 items that are excellent for other builds and playstyles for every item you find that you can actually use and that is out of the thousands of drops that are total garbage. I would rather sell those 100 items to 100 other players in order to get the currency to get the 1 item I need from the thousands of other players that have 100 items they don't need or want either.

I don't know what to say to this thread. It's completly off the wall both in favor and against AH arguments in hear make no sence at all.

If u think a AH ( or AH like system , poe.xyz. , any fourm posting ) dose not have a dramatic effect on a game then i don't know what to say to you.

Same with not having any trading at all , this would have a massive impact on the game.


Lets look to D3 again. It was a mess with the AH , thare is no deniing that . However it's also a mess withought it. the curent drop rate in D3 is totaly off the wall retarded. It's insanly high, thare is no fun to have in d3 gg gear drops like rain. this is what i get woried about when people want to eliminate trading in PoE , a insane drop rate that trivilizes content.

If u let a full blown AH into PoE however then the game becomes focoused around that. ATM some player focouse on this already however , players like this will be doing the same thing illigaly if the option is removed for them. So thare is no reason to try to curb trading. It's a part of any ANY itemization based game .

I have alot more to say about this topic but i just feel like it's wasted time . I can only pray GGG will hold true to the reason i gave them money and do the right things even if it is against what 90 % of the idiots out thare are crying for.

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terrorist wrote:

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TEBird wrote:

Auction houses/trade systems/trade automation etc. etc. don't ruin games. Bad design ruins games.

Good luck balancing a game that centers around drops with a system that can instantaneously give them every item in the game.

So just make drops less frequent right? Great. Now every single item you ever find will guaranteed to be coming from the AH just like in Diablo 3 it will feel like you're only playing to farm currency. I can tell you now I have found several valuable items, self found. It's a great feeling. AH deprives you of this feeling.

So just makes drops easier so you can still experience the joy of finding items yourself, right? Wrong. The problem with this is that increasing drop rates proportionately makes it easier to obtain the exact same item on the AH, again, making the AH vastly more desirable way to obtain the item.

There's no happy medium, either and pursuing one is a fool's errand.

Some players mistakenly believe an indexer is the same thing as an AH since it gives players wide access to all the items and in that regard and that regard alone it is true. An indexer is like an AH however it's evidently not the same or else you wouldn't be asking for an AH because an AH trivializes the entire game and you know it.

Shagsbeard how many alt accounts do you have?

I play without trading because I think the game is too easy with it. I find the game itself fun and don't have to make continual progress to enjoy it. But I get that others don't feel this way. I traded some in standard in beta and used the AH in d3 quite a bit when it first launched.

To me, the real problem with an AH isn't that it makes things too easy to get but that it makes it strikingly clear just how crap normal drops are relative to great drops. The best way to a avoid this downside is to structure the AH such that it is only high value items.

IMO the best way to implement an AH in POE would be:
-You list an item for a number of days you set, minimum 5, max 14.
-You play a listing fee upfront of one chance orb per day.
-You cannot cancel an auction once you list it.
-The vendor automatically enters a bid of the item's sell to vendor value.
-Placing a bid on an item cost one chance orb.
-Bids can only be made in chaos orbs
-No buyouts.

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mucker wrote:

I play without trading because I think the game is too easy with it. I find the game itself fun and don't have to make continual progress to enjoy it. But I get that others don't feel this way. I traded some in standard in beta and used the AH in d3 quite a bit when it first launched.

To me, the real problem with an AH isn't that it makes things too easy to get but that it makes it strikingly clear just how crap normal drops are relative to great drops. The best way to a avoid this downside is to structure the AH such that it is only high value items.

IMO the best way to implement an AH in POE would be:
-You list an item for a number of days you set, minimum 5, max 14.
-You play a listing fee upfront of one chance orb per day.
-You cannot cancel an auction once you list it.
-The vendor automatically enters a bid of the item's sell to vendor value.
-Placing a bid on an item cost one chance orb.
-Bids can only be made in chaos orbs
-No buyouts.

Your saying that because AH will make normal drops look like crap by comparison that it should be altered so that only those high value items will be listed?!?!

This proposal has me cross eyed trying to follow such a contradictory statement. The additional fact that it would effectively bar use of efficient trade for all but the most wealthy is an additional insult.

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Xero_Kill wrote:

Correction: It deprives YOU of this feeling, not everyone. You do not represent anyone but yourself, so speak for yourself.

Feel free to provide a counter point then.

Telling players to not use a system in a game that's designed around its use is not a valid answer. May as well tell them to not play.

I never said it was a valid answer. In fact, I think it is a numbskull thing to do. What I did say was that if you have such a personal aversion to trading, and simply refuse to play a single player game that caters specifically to you, then YOU still have the option to not utilize the system in order to create the experience you want. Instead of lobbying to ensure that everyone else has to do without something because YOU personally don't like it, why don't you either modify the gameplay for yourself to suit your personal biases, or go somewhere else that does cater to your whims?

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terrorist wrote:

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Xero_Kill wrote:

Correction: It deprives YOU of this feeling, not everyone. You do not represent anyone but yourself, so speak for yourself.

Feel free to provide a counter point then.

Telling players to not use a system in a game that's designed around its use is not a valid answer. May as well tell them to not play.

His entire post was a refutation to your overreaching generalization that AH somehow robs players of some subjective 'feeling' of accomplishment. It certainly doesn't for everyone and if its a problem for your sensibilities then you can opt to not use an AH and retain your sense of self found accomplishment. That is your choice.

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Cryptophylaxis wrote:

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terrorist wrote:

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Xero_Kill wrote:

Correction: It deprives YOU of this feeling, not everyone. You do not represent anyone but yourself, so speak for yourself.

Feel free to provide a counter point then.

Telling players to not use a system in a game that's designed around its use is not a valid answer. May as well tell them to not play.

if its a problem for your sensibilities then you can opt to not use an AH

Just like I said: Telling players to not use a system in a game that's designed around it's use is not a valid answer. There's nothing else to your point.

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Xero_Kill wrote:

I never said it was a valid answer. In fact, I think it is a numbskull thing to do. What I did say was that if you have such a personal aversion to trading, and simply refuse to play a single player game that caters specifically to you, then YOU still have the option to not utilize the system in order to create the experience you want. Instead of lobbying to ensure that everyone else has to do without something because YOU personally don't like it, why don't you either modify the gameplay for yourself to suit your personal biases, or go somewhere else that does cater to your whims?

This logic of yours is screwed, and can be made towards everything.

- You don't like trading? GTFO!
- You don't like desync? GTFO!
- You don't like trolls in the forum? GTFO!
- You'd like an AH? This game doesn't have one, so GTFO!
- You'd like an in game trading system better than the current one? GTFO!

We ALL like the game to evolve the way we personally like it to. A LOT of people want it to evolve into something more solo friendly. In a game like this, with separate leagues and shit, we CAN HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.