PSA: AHs don't ruin games, Designers ruin games

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PuppyDogPimp wrote:

I was expecting to read about why auction houses don't ruin games, but instead read about why Diablo 3 still sucks.

It is often said that D3 is the evidence of how an AH is bad for an ARPG. D3 is evidence of a bad game that is about it.


POE already has a virtual market system akin to the AH, POE XYZ and poe is all the better for it because its actually a good game. Being able to get gear upgrades that you need on the relative cheap without having to grind to infinity is a good thing.


POE isn't going to add a AH, they will eventually add some sort of more efficient trade system that reduces the amount of player to player interaction needed to facilitate trades.

Yes that deeply intense player to player interaction that we currently have will eventually be reduced or phased out, such that you will no longer have the deeply satisfying interaction of:

"omg noob 2 chaos not 4 alch, got it? Kthxbai t4t."


I know that really did enhance your lives to have such an exchange but somehow we will make it without such exchanges.


There have been rumors of a system being created that will make it easier to trade with people who are offline. Some sort of semi-automated trade. I doubt an actual AH will ever be added, but a more efficient system is coming and it will make the game better not worse.

Just like POE XYZ made the game better not worse. If you think such things ruin the game then POE should already be ruined as far as your concerned since POE XYZ already exists. The game is still great. Having good gear to play a good game is not a problem its a good thing.

To those who think that an ARPG is actually ruined by being able to obtain effective gear to play said game, that would logically mean that the most ideal design for an ARPG would be to give players the illusion of being able to obtain good gear but never let them actually obtain that gear...that is beyond asinine.

If you don't want to have any sort of market in a game you should advocate for a self found league not hate on what many people are looking forward to a more effective market.

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PuppyDogPimp wrote:

I was expecting to read about why auction houses don't ruin games, but instead read about why Diablo 3 still sucks.

well, its not like both are wrong, right?

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Alea wrote:

the most automation the trade interface allows the worst it is

- Poe xyz => have to contact each player 1 by 1 by wispering them => automation only limited to serch
- AH => search & actions/buyouts => 100% automated

Finally the actual Poe xyz is the best form we can have, but it should be completely handled by GGG and its requests amounts per IP properly limited to avoid trade search botting.

best - > Human contact & human amount of requests per hour or per day per IP adress.

Do you find it really edifying to engage in such human to human exchanges as:

Spamming trade/searching trade forums for hours to finally meet up with someone for a few seconds and...
"A1n 2c t4t kthxbai"

oh yeah that is really meaningful social interaction.

I think I'd rather spend 120 seconds searching for the item I need, get it, and then spend the next half hour actually playing and enjoying the game with friends in an actual socially engaging sort of way...but maybe that is just me...?


effective market trading systems allow you to more quickly and with less hassle convert items you don't need into items you do need.


The down side is players who think every crap item they find should be worth something will rage that they can no longer charge 5 chaos for some piece of crap that should be sold to a vendor.

There is nothing bad about being able to convert stuff you don't need for stuff you do need.

Being able to trade some random orbs I found for a rare boots with the sockets/links/mods I need at a given level is pretty much awesome.

The only draw back I see is that people say that really elite items get even more expensive, but heck I cannot afford a 30 exalted item now anyway so I could really care less if it goes up to 300 exalts. At least I could more easily purchase the 5-10 chaos gear.

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TEBird wrote:

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Alea wrote:

the most automation the trade interface allows the worst it is

- Poe xyz => have to contact each player 1 by 1 by wispering them => automation only limited to serch
- AH => search & actions/buyouts => 100% automated

Finally the actual Poe xyz is the best form we can have, but it should be completely handled by GGG and its requests amounts per IP properly limited to avoid trade search botting.

best - > Human contact & human amount of requests per hour or per day per IP adress.

Do you find it really edifying to engage in such human to human exchanges as:

Spamming trade/searching trade forums for hours to finally meet up with someone for a few seconds and...
"A1n 2c t4t kthxbai"

oh yeah that is really meaningful social interaction.

I think I'd rather spend 120 seconds searching for the item I need, get it, and then spend the next half hour actually playing and enjoying the game with friends in an actual socially engaging sort of way...but maybe that is just me...?


effective market trading systems allow you to more quickly and with less hassle convert items you don't need into items you do need.


The down side is players who think every crap item they find should be worth something will rage that they can no longer charge 5 chaos for some piece of crap that should be sold to a vendor.

There is nothing bad about being able to convert stuff you don't need for stuff you do need.

Being able to trade some random orbs I found for a rare boots with the sockets/links/mods I need at a given level is pretty much awesome.

Yeah, the "social interaction" argument isn't the strongest. You either get a (relatively) pleasant (quick) exchange, or *seething rage*, most of the time.

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syrioforel wrote:

Yeah, the "social interaction" argument isn't the strongest. You either get a (relatively) pleasant (quick) exchange, or *seething rage*, most of the time.

I think some people are forgetting that negotiating prices can also exist in an AH type setting. With the proper system, a buyer can place items/orbs into an 'offer' window, and wait for the seller to respond with a yes/no/counteroffer on their own time. It would eliminate the hassle of social interaction, and retain the bartering aspect.

Right now, a big problem is no one is online when you need something. You see their stuff on xyz, except they live on the opposite side of the globe with a full-time job. Or occasionally when you contact certain players, they only have a rudimentary understanding of English, so you're stuck there bartering with Google Translate.

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rrtson wrote:

Or occasionally when you contact certain players, they only have a rudimentary understanding of English, so you're stuck there bartering with Google Translate.

Thats their problem. I never would use google translate just because someone has bad english. Im no english native speaker, but for me english is the world language. period.

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Insomniask wrote:

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Hackusations wrote:

This is a pointless debate. PoE will never have an in-game AH simply because the non-gold based currency values are player driven meaning there is no objective metric an AH server could use to compare bids with different currencies.

Nonsense...ppl put the item in for whatever they want, 5 fusing, 10 ex, 3 mirrors whatever.

Buyout only AH. Bid-AH isnt needed but can be done too, inserter has only to determine in which currency ppl will bid. But Bid-AH doesnt fit to poe and wont come.

Buyout-AH on the other side is due since years. It's GGG's own fault of not finally implementing it, they lost many players because of that and will continue to lose players.

So lets have fun with a retarded "board in a3 merc" and whisper trade system. Its bad.

What you're suggesting is what GGG has been planning for years, but haven't gotten around to implementing it.

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ciknay wrote:

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Insomniask wrote:

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Hackusations wrote:

This is a pointless debate. PoE will never have an in-game AH simply because the non-gold based currency values are player driven meaning there is no objective metric an AH server could use to compare bids with different currencies.

Nonsense...ppl put the item in for whatever they want, 5 fusing, 10 ex, 3 mirrors whatever.

Buyout only AH. Bid-AH isnt needed but can be done too, inserter has only to determine in which currency ppl will bid. But Bid-AH doesnt fit to poe and wont come.

Buyout-AH on the other side is due since years. It's GGG's own fault of not finally implementing it, they lost many players because of that and will continue to lose players.

So lets have fun with a retarded "board in a3 merc" and whisper trade system. Its bad.

What you're suggesting is what GGG has been planning for years, but haven't gotten around to implementing it.

Really? Pretty much baffles me then. PoE didnt change that much except for balance and a few new skills etc. One should guess that they had enough time.

+1 OP

Auction Houses are present in numerous other RPGs and those games do absolutely fine. D3 was just a bad game to begin with, and the Auction House exacerbated the situation. Like others have said here, PoE already has an Auction House = Poe.xyz.is. If it weren't for that site, I would've quit this godforsaken game a long fucking time ago. If GGG expects people to sit in town and spam Trade Chat for 3 hours a day just to acquire passable gear, they have a seriously fucked up view of what "fun" is.

Efficiency is good
Repeat it with me.
Efficiency is good
Again.
Efficiency is good
Good, louder now.
EFFICIENCY IS GOOD

To all of the flippers who are crying that more efficiency will cause their precious items to lose value because sellers will continuously undercut each other, let me tell you something... QQ!!! I want to actually play this game. An AH allows players to post their items up, forget, and go slay some goddamn monsters. After all, PoE is an Action RPG. You ain't getting any action when you're sitting in town trading.

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rrtson wrote:

Like others have said here, PoE already has an Auction House = Poe.xyz.is. If it weren't for that site, I would've quit this godforsaken game a long fucking time ago.