RMT Wins. Fatality!

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Michael_GGG wrote:

and we don't receive such emails as often as some might think

yeah

because why bother?

when whole rmt forum is available for reading and searching _and_ nothing ever happens to those players

just re-checked my favorite account

first when forum search by account name didn't showed up anything,
i thought he was banned for good

but no

he active as ever [removed by support]

Getting that kind of currency in standard isn't that hard when you don't start over every 4 months and you are investing yourself into one or two characters at most.

Death is not an issue. Once you've gotten all your needed items, everything you get can be stashed/sold. You could also farm the leagues for a 5:1 conversion ratio in the past. High lvl maps will level up gems pretty quickly, so you can get them to high level/quality pretty fast etc...

These are just a few examples that can get you there in one year. I would be more worried with
low level character/accounts that have thousands of scraps/whetstones than with people playing a long time having thousands of exalts in their stash.

So I think I should probably do something on-topic instead of talking about tea, but it's been a while since I argumentatively dissected a forum post, so forgive me if I'm a bit rusty.

"

johnKeys wrote:

in Open Beta, some people "worth" ~200 Exalts were considered insanely rich. kingpins of trade. flip-lords holding an entire league's economy in their hands.
now, there are items selling for 2x that.

This can be affected by a large number of factors - inflation, continued improvements in the methods used to farm currency, increased droprates (even a meager 5-10% from Vaal pieces in a map can make a huge difference for currency).... You don't take any of this into consideration.

"

there's no denying the overall amount of currency in the game multiplied since OB, but for individuals to have such amounts, and be enough in number (of people) to sustain so-called "high end trade"?

This is just what happens with open-ended economies. The rich ain't rich because they used their resources poorly, and they just use the resources they gain from using their resources well to gain more resources. (That sentence was a bit of a clusterfuck, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.) I would argue that a large majority of people who do RMT are bad at managing their ingame resources and as such will tend to have expensive items with very small amounts of other currency. I've yet to see many, no, ANY examples of that.

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you do the math, and make conclusions.

Give me some numbers to run, and I gladly will. As it is, you're making poorly-founded conclusions which seem to be pulled from somewhere between Neptune and Saturn.

"

think about the only place, where all of this currency can come from.
the only way so much could end up in the stash tabs of so many, even if many (most?) of them never did RMT directly.

Well-applied used of farming time and trading?

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I rarely make threads about economy - because quite frankly I don't give a damn - but I do care about the scum of the earth coming in, and taking over the game.

Well A, since when are people who RMT the scum of the earth, I thought that was mosquitoes, and B, you just said you don't care about the economy, but you somehow care about an event which affects little else besides the economy. I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate on this point, because to me it makes no sense.

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GGG have lost the battle against RMT, and the war.
now, it's just a slaughter.

This wording looks to me like little besides an attempt at shock value.

"

and that's assuming they did fight, rather than just swing through the air and pretend to.
you know what? I'll just put my tin foil hat on and take a guess that's exactly what they wanted, because the layered-RNG zero-risk/reward design of the game practically screams it.

Or maybe, maybe they wanted to make a system which rewards luck and skill via high clearspeed with large MF, and aimed a little too high. It's their first game; there are bound to be minor kinks in the rarity system, and the system currently in place does less towards "screaming" RMT than it does maybe give a tiny, gentle nudge towards it. I'm not saying there is no incentive to RMT, because there definitely is, but you're blowing it way out of proportion.

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if so, at least they could go all-in and make the game P2W. make the RMT money go directly to GGG, to fund salaries and future development.
I'd probably leave if they did, but it's a hell of a lot better than funding some Chinese bot-masters.

And if you're going to restate topics with poorly-written arguments, you might as well go all-out and write a capslock rant about desync with periodic pictures of horse dicks. Slippery slope logic is fun, but it doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

Which brings me to my final point - why in hell's bells does this thread exist? Have there not been enough threads about this game - hell, all F2P multiplayer games - having RMT? Is there some new, novel concept being discussed here? Why on earth did you make this?

Edit: I made a couple of hasty spelling mistakes, my bad.

"

Pyrokar wrote:

Getting that kind of currency in standard isn't that hard when you don't start over every 4 months and you are investing yourself into one or two characters at most.

Death is not an issue. Once you've gotten all your needed items, everything you get can be stashed/sold. You could also farm the leagues for a 5:1 conversion ratio in the past. High lvl maps will level up gems pretty quickly, so you can get them to high level/quality pretty fast etc...

These are just a few examples that can get you there in one year. I would be more worried with
low level character/accounts that have thousands of scraps/whetstones than with people playing a long time having thousands of exalts in their stash.

I'd make another snarky comment about being able to come up with things like the above instead of going "OMG RMT WTF" with a couple minutes' thinking, but it would just get removed by support, so I won't bother. =P

Edit: Theros, I still love you.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

I enjoy the game. If that's wrong, and getting caught up in the trading meta-game, sticking to just one character, etc, is right, you can take your 'right' and shove it in your stash. Sideways.

I'm now officially CharanJaydemyr's fan. ggwp.


Anyone saying that this thread is pointless = RMTer.
This thread is not pointless - RMT is against the rules and OP is straight out right. Picking on him for the amount of the currency he has, with his given play time - you're a douche. And offtopic. And what CharanJaydemyr said.

Game does not promote RMT - players being jealous or feeling the need to shine promotes RMT.
People ALWAYS wants more, and some will do more to get it than others. But stuff they do is against game rules, so they SHOULD be banned.

"

Michael_GGG wrote:

Most of these users are smart enough to not publicly share their PoE details, regardless we do ban these accounts when the evidence is found.

his PoE name equals his RMT name, but whatever

when i'm bored of the game, i start playing "spot RMT-er" minigame

go rmt forum
find recent WTS thread with quite specific item
search for the same item at poe.xyz

takes 30 seconds

the only explanation is
a) you have some very strict "evidence" rules like "buying and selling from fake account to GGG employee"
b) your trade history search is very limited, like you can't trace currency moves

or a combination of two

overall it looks like one sacrificial cow is chosen every season (#1 Anarchy, #2 Invasion zoomhack) and that's it

ccr5, your work in identifying these guys sounds like it would be helpful for support to act on. good if you could share those with them! :)

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CCR5 wrote:

"

Michael_GGG wrote:

Most of these users are smart enough to not publicly share their PoE details, regardless we do ban these accounts when the evidence is found.

his PoE name equals his RMT name, but whatever

when i'm bored of the game, i start playing "spot RMT-er" minigame

go rmt forum
find recent WTS thread with quite specific item
search for the same item at poe.xyz

takes 30 seconds

the only explanation is
a) you have some very strict "evidence" rules like "buying and selling from fake account to GGG employee"
b) your trade history search is very limited, like you can't trace currency moves

or a combination of two

overall it looks like one sacrificial cow is chosen every season (#1 Anarchy, #2 Invasion zoomhack) and that's it

They cant just ban someone with equal names on RMT forums and on PoE.
I could be RMT'ing items with an account named CCR5 as we speak.

Your next point on the other hand is pretty good evidence, just check items that are put on RMT sites and look up who actually has them for trade in the game. Imo this should even be a lot easier for GGG to spot, all they need is the sellers topic on the RMT website and search ingame who has that particular item. But even then someone could just be messing around and put your items on the RMT website just to get you banned, sounds retarded but hey retarded people do exist.

This thread is hitting a nerve with me.

I have played many game that had alot of RMT/botting problems before. In some cases i was directly and very aggresivly engaged in a 1 man war with these people for control of market cornors.

I have seen VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE that this is happening in PoE. Is thare RMT /botting in poe ? yes im sure thare is. has it hit a critical mass whare it is effecting the market more so than legit players ? no not even close.

A market place that is inflated artificaly with cheating has some very obvious signs. Top end gear having a insanley high prise is NOT something that is created from cheating. In fact no matter how bad botting gets it rarley effects the very top end gears.

It ususaly hevealy effects the gear right before that and items that alow accses into "end game content"

In PoE the prices for gear like this is actualy comeing down in prise ... witch makes sence dew to the fact that the market is inflated with large amounts and the need to sell.

The big problem with games like PoE having such insane inflation is that thare is no "out" for the economy. Items / assets / wealth have no way of being removed. Thare is no way to destroy items to balance out the income of new wealth created from gameplay. Death in HC mode helps this but is not enoughf. More items need to be destroyed / consumed in order to combat the incressing amount of items being introduced into the eco. all the time.

This is Y u see such massive inglation on the top tier item. The rich players have nothing elce to spend on. they have all the gear they need and then some , the only items they need are the ones that are new or gated by extrem content / RNG ( like the uber artiz gear )

It's not botting/RMT that driving the prise of these items so high , it's the nature of the economy in PoE with the introduction of extrem end game content driving the need for items like this for the insanley rich.