Is POE doing enough to counter the D3 ROS hype?

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

There really isn't.

the hype is really not that big. a lot of people thought RoS to be LoD, and with each new change there are lots of disappointments echoing through d3 forums

personally Im not very thrilled either with the changes, especially since WD - my favorite class- is getting rapidly nerfed. I thought about buying RoS before, but at this point Im not gonna touch it until it goes on sale, at least. or I hear tons of positive reviews

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grepman wrote:

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TheAnuhart wrote:

The gear for every 'stage' was available from the 'stage' prior to it.

so you finna tell me you were soloing act 3 melee with itemlevel <60 items too, self-founded. ok. lol, do you mind tell me how long did it take for you to find a good weapon ?

you want to be guaranteed to get certain items after x hours, even though you say youre against instant gratification.

in reality you want the same thing. you want that after investing x hours in the game (and you're ok with x being really really really high but still a defined x) that you get guaranteed progression.

your frustration with can be described in two words, without writing tolstoy novels: map drops.

there is no difference between farming act 1 for items in d3 and farming for currency/items/maps in poe.

both cases youre doing easy content in hopes of doing higher content. the problem is that youre frustrated by having to fall back on lower tier of maps when map drops arent good to you. but you were completely fine with no items dropping for you and having 5k dps doing self found zerg through mutliple deaths in act 3 d3?

when you have good enough gear to farm act 3 in d3, theres no big difference between farming it and act 2, besides getting better item levels. same as there is no difference between farming a 74 map and 70 map in poe besides (you guessed) better itemlevel items. in fact, in poe, a tough mods 68 map will be much harder than easy mod 75 map where as d3v act 2 was strictly worse than act 3

so all your frustration, again, can be summed up in two words: map drops.


Ill be the first one to tell you self-found and solo 100% dont have it well in poe. but they didnt have it in diablo 3 either.

I'm really puzzled, here, Grepman!!





You will notice nothing before those kill dates other than a few BS pages that didn't drop in Hell and a plan to attempt a craft of a sword. I didn't start playing at launch, 15th, probably like 20th or 21st.

You might be interested in Schnutti's interview here he mentions me.

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Q. What was your most memorable moment of this entire experience?
Well two moments I would say. One of course was when I finished my last Paragon 100. :) And the other was when I met some nice guy from the UK named Anuhart in chat. I always thought that I must be the most crazy player out there. But he had double my playtime by that time! He is a 100% self-found player with a lot of knowledge about the game but also a great and kind person.

You'll notice in the SSs, Ghom and SB killed on June 16th.
Patch 1.03, the nerf, was June 19th.
I continued farming both Act 2 and Act 3 before going through to Diablo in one sitting on June 29th. The nerfs really took the point out of it and I was in no rush but went through on a spur of the moment thing some 10 days later.

Why do you mention <60 gear in Act 3?
No, I entered Act 1 with a max of ilvl 60, I entered Act 2 with a max of ilvl 61, I entered Act 3 with a max of ilvl 62. What is so difficult to understand about that? It was the max ilvl gear I could have without buying, pre nerfs.

As for 'there is no difference between farming act 1 for items in d3 and farming for currency/items/maps in poe'. There is, there absolutely is. I'm farming the tier of content imediately below the tier that would kick my ass, in D3. In PoE, I'm farming content several tiers below.

If you could assign a challenge/content level number, lets say 1 to 100.
In D3 it went like this..

Farm 1 - open gate for 2.
Farm 2 - open gate for 3.
<...>
Farm 88 - open gate for 89.

In PoE it starts out the same but at maps it goes tits up.

Farm 1 - open gate for 2.
Farm 2 - open gate for 3.
<...>
Farm 50 - open gate for 51.
<...>
Farm 50 - open gate for 67.
Farm 50 - open gate for 68.
<...>
Farm 50 - open gate for 91.
Farm 50 - open gate for 92.

You are farming content way below the challenge level you are trying to unlock, what's more, you not only outgear the content you are farming, but outgear the content you are trying to unlock, usually before seeing it.

"Ill be the first one to tell you self-found and solo 100% dont have it well in poe. but they didnt have it in diablo 3 either."

Well, for me, farming content immediately below the content you are trying to progress to, IS having it well. Farming content several tiers below that which you are trying to access and which you even outgear, is NOT having it well. That's the major difference and it's the difference that, for me, shadows all the good in PoE, and there is a lot of good.

"when you have good enough gear to farm act 3 in d3, theres no big difference between farming it and act 2, besides getting better item levels. same as there is no difference between farming a 74 map and 70 map in poe besides (you guessed) better itemlevel items. in fact, in poe, a tough mods 68 map will be much harder than easy mod 75 map where as d3v act 2 was strictly worse than act 3"

You are not getting it. Self found, you don't even get enough alchs to alch and maintain any lvl maps. Honestly, using alch recipe to the full, vending regrets at Clarisa, vending every drop and even alt/auging every 66-69 map to give max alch shards from vendor, you still won't even have enough to alch your 70 + map drops. So the 'challenging rolled lvl 70 map' thing doesn't hold, it still has you farming faceroll content, not to mention chaos and chisels you dare to use on higher maps.

This is why I proposed map drops were tuned so while capable of running 77/78s, you would most likely drop down to 74s as a minimum. That all bosses, say 74 and above, drop 1 alch, 1 chaos and 1 chisel and the map itself would add to that a little. Reason to do bosses, not so faceroll, better challenge and progress while still not chaining 77/78s, in fact you'd expect to fall back to 74s solo self found. Farming 74/75s for higher maps, chaos and chisels to progress the 76/77/78s that you'd chisel and chaos. Chaining 77/78s via trade and group is and always has been possible. The extra alchs, chaos and chisels would be a drop in the ocean to that. And, if you should get some RNG that meant for a small time period you actually got more alchs and chaos than required? Hell, lets throw some on some white bases, crafting, yey!!

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I was new at D3 at one time too. Thought it was shit. I am not a slow learner and can make decision within 10 hours of playing a game. Maybe you're just burnt out. D3 should be qa nice change of pace.

Well, you can't, really.

Because you can't get to the stage where you will see the problems in 10 hours, in fact, you haven't gotten there yet.

If you like a trade sim, you'll love it, it's hands down the best shopping game out. Because it has a really good aRPG as a side game, although you have to accept the trading will diminish the challenging aspect of the aRPG. Catch 22, there.

But you mention you like self found, you mention you like choices and challenge. You also speak of end game, partying and of AH3.

PoE plays out just like D3 for the Act content, except it has the awesome character building that D3 sorely lacked.

It's great, it really is, you fight monsters at whatever challenge level suits you, either farm safe or push ahead, reaping the benefits of better gear if you push but with added danger.

That all goes out of the window at maps. This is where D3 trumps PoE, whether it was vanilla, MP or RoS.

This is what you have to look forward to.
Access to content which quickly becomes a faceroll, solo, self found.
Maps that are still a challenge are gated from you, requiring an amount of orbs to roll such that you have some sort of chance to progress maps, which will take around 50 times the time to loot than to run the map.

So here is your choices; you either farm non-challenging content for say 50 hours to roll a challenging map to the point it has an acceptable possibility to give another challenging map, or you party up and split the cost, or you trade. Trading, as you know, will diminish the challenge. As will grouping, to a massive degree. Do your 50 hour grind, get lucky (or not) and get another map that lvl or +1 or +2 and it's back to faceroll farming for you. Don't get another and you dropped down to your next highest map.

You can sustain the content on trade alone, or in a group which will also require some trading. But solo self found, nope, not without an obscene ratio of farming faceroll content.

Here's the thing. Even if you take the solo self found route, suck up the faceroll farming and call it a necessary bore to unlock the challenge every so often; you will in fact outgear the content due to the number of rares and uniques you get from the faceroll, the high rolled ones will outgear you for the challenge, often before you even see it. And if you do see it, it's a glimpse in hours upon hours upon hours of farming stupidly easy content for the insane amount of orbs you require.

You can forget about crafting, or you can forget about end game content and just replace challenge in the above explanation with crafting. Although your 50 hours farming will get you more in the region of 5 mins crafting with no results.

Or, trade party faceroll, use the 3rd party AHs and call yourself a hardcore aRPG gamer.

One thing D3 never, ever did, was tell me I had to trade; not to craft, not to advance and not for challenge. It sucked in many ways, but imho, no matter how good an aRPG is, such as PoE with all the awesome, it fails when it takes this design.

Now read what I just said. I had over 3500 hours in D3, I had over 5100 hours in PoE.
Solo, self found in both. And now look at what you wrote in the quote below. I ain't shitting ya.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Yeah that dude is being a bit foolish. I joined a group once. Face roll even with my crappy self founded gear. Never again. Felt like diablo - main reason I left is game was too easy.

Items - every item I pick up i relish seeing. If I trade that will ruin it and make game ez mode.

I agree make self founded league. I don't need to compete with stay at home nerds because I only have time for 2 hours a night after work. But if you want it I see no reason why not. PoE will lose some customers to D3 too who is all self found now.

Let me just throw something else in..
How many chaos and chisels have you found?
An end game map will require 4 chisels, 1 Alch and anywhere between 0 and fucking loads of chaos. Should you be lucky enough to get a map from your map and chain that luck. Not only can you not sustain the chaos, or the chisels, but you don't even get 1 alch per map. Food for thought.

I appreciate your insight but at least PoE has a so called "endgame" in maps - Diablo amounts to gear up for Mp10 which I can do for you as low as 10 million which is nothing. Gold found on pick up on way up. From there you find nothing worth upgrade to but instead play AH sim just to face roll faster. There is no maps. No endless dungeons no nothing but same boring content and same boring gear. Main stat IAS CC CD AR and GG. Dont expect RoS to be any better itemization is actually worse IMO.

I can see issues with PoE. Paltry amount of reagents for one thing to actually craft in any decent pace. Must trade at highest levels. etc. No game is perfect and will be able please all commers but at least PoE doesnt change every 5 min and has longevity. Diablo started out hard as hell with shit drops. It was good then IMO. Now it's carebeared to max so I dont like it.

I;m not buying it for 1 sec one could beat pre 1.0.3 inferno self found. Issue was even finding AR and HP to even survive one shots even one sentry sweep. Then if you managed to get mit and HP up to snuff - and I mean like 1m EHP (twice what most ppl carry today in Mp10) where is your DPS gonna come from at same time to overcome enrage and healing elites? No chance. But it's a nice story.

I was GG back in original and yes used GAH, used abusive critical mass wiz and still needed a group and party buffs (warcry, etc) to survive. We used to make coin selling belial/azmadon/diablo kills for ppl that used AH. self found I think not.

Game has changed a lot since. Today you can make mp1-4 pretty easy self found. Sick items and better drop rates came in 1.0.4. All damage has been reduced. no enrage. no 100% shielded minion with nothing to proc. no healing elites. no wicked affix's. no serious reflect. But it's still a shit game because there is not much to it. All diablo had going for it was its near impossible difficulty to overcome. Thats gone. Has no replayabilty in so far as items you may pick up along way and try xyz build because every toon uses same items (AR CD CC IAS items usually same exact legendary within class like every barb uses IK chest). Has no builds you need to repec over because you can change builds on whim. Has no endless dungeons like maps. Once you make a toon a beat game your time is spent trying to beat it faster. I got better things to do with my time. I'm not in HS anymore.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I;m not buying it for 1 sec one could beat pre 1.0.3 inferno self found. Issue was even finding AR and HP to even survive one shots even one sentry sweep. Then if you managed to get mit and HP up to snuff - and I mean like 1m EHP (twice what most ppl carry today in Mp10) where is your DPS gonna come from at same time to overcome enrage and healing elites? No chance. But it's a nice story.

I was GG back in original and yes used GAH, used abusive critical mass wiz and still needed a group and party buffs (warcry, etc) to survive. We used to make coin selling belial/azmadon/diablo kills for ppl that used AH. self found I think not.

Beat it pre nerf?
I didn't.
I said, I stopped while progressing through the crater as my play style was that everything must die. I couldn't kill everything so I went back to farming Act 2 and early Act 3.

The screen shots are there to back up what I'm saying and I'm struggling to see how you don't think it possible. I'm no leetskills player, I'm probably below average skill, I just have a lot of time to invest and that point was something like 26 days at ~12+ hours per day, probably around 350 hours. That could amount to several months playing for many.

I was a full tank barb with around 6k dps at the time iirc. I hit enrage timers constantly and dealt with them with the tools available, charge heal, pots, globes and revenge heal (pulling trash to assist in the healing).

/shrug.

Edit, what I didn't mention. My gold sink (as I did throw gear on the AH, if it didn't sell I gave it away in trade chat for free) was my 'chantress, I pimped her to fuck as a dps 'chantress (underestimated damage potential). But even then, at that point, as the SS shows, I didn't start that until after those dates, she was 'pimped' on my drops alone at that time. But still added probably equal damage as I did, at that point.

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Has no endless dungeons like maps.

Have you mapped? ~_^

people will always come back to poe, its free

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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CCR5 wrote:

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ReZar wrote:

What concerns me is that someone like kripp got completely burned out on ARPGS by playing RoS beta, that could be bad.

It was the worst advertisement ever :^)

He played with broken skills in a beta which not only wasn't tuned in player and monster damage, but had massively inflated drop rates because they wanted feedback on the gear.

It was far from an accurate display of the levelling and gear progression.

It was more akin to a dev doing a /lvl70, /BiSgearset, /uberdevpowa than an accurate display of RoS release.

Most people know that.

What?

Pretty sure he leveled the character, he also didn't have BiS if he did there would be no point in keep grinding.

Basically everything you said was entirely wrong.

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ReZar wrote:

Pretty sure he leveled the character, he also didn't have BiS if he did there would be no point in keep grinding.

Basically everything you said was entirely wrong.

There is a very big difference between 'more akin to' and 'was exactly'.

Kripp's time in RoS was more akin to a dev insta lvling to 70 and using BiS gear with uber powers than it was to playing the yet to be finished released version.

It wasn't either, it was between the two. But so far from a true representation without broken skills, without untuned combat, without accelerated progression and without massively increased drops that it was closer to the hypothetical extreme (or maybe it wasn't quite, it doesn't really matter).

You really missed that?
Really?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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ReZar wrote:

Pretty sure he leveled the character, he also didn't have BiS if he did there would be no point in keep grinding.

Basically everything you said was entirely wrong.

There is a very big difference between 'more akin to' and 'was exactly'.

Kripp's time in RoS was more akin to a dev insta lvling to 70 and using BiS gear with uber powers than it was to playing the yet to be finished released version.

It wasn't either, it was between the two. But so far from a true representation without broken skills, without untuned combat, without accelerated progression and without massively increased drops that it was closer to the hypothetical extreme (or maybe it wasn't quite, it doesn't really matter).

You really missed that?
Really?

Kripp started off not using the "Rape Beam" but then finally gave in and in doing so he was able to easy skip some content and start farming the highest difficulty right away.

I think the average player will be able to get 2-3 Month of Gameplay and Grind out of RoS and thats worth 40 $ in my book.