Is POE doing enough to counter the D3 ROS hype?

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TheAnuhart wrote:

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Aim_Deep wrote:

What was amusing and telling is when beta came out all the big name streamers were playing other games like PoE and Heartstone after a couple days. RoS is complete shit worse than live. You;ll see.

1. All legacy items are trash so they are crapping all over people who actually stuck with game. Cant recraft them either.

2. Even more simplistic itemization than before if thats possible with only 4 primary stats

3. removing all the fun builds from the game. Anything spammable at high lvl for example like firebats like WW barb and so on, they want it to be kite fest and interchange primary skills.

4. No trading or AH? Uh yeah. I dont trade in PoE yet but options are good. Remove options remove customers.

5. Game is carebear to max. I play RoS beta and frolic at hardest levels with legacy gear. New gear, again same boring shit with higher numbers is a face roll. Nothing threatens you. High paragon easy to achieve. Face roll gear easy to achieve. difficulty is part of "end game" RoS has none.

6. Same simplistic builds with no character choices or skill tree to keep you coming back trying more, albeit fun ones removed.

Game is terrible. Made for 5 year olds. You'll see and be back just like streamers were after a couple days lol. When green posters typically Blizzard fanboys are bagging on game you got HUGE problems!!

Edit why ppl preordering a game thats digitally delivered??? I am not even though I have a couple hundred in bnet bucks and made a few thousand playing AH3 I discovered PoE and will play vaal after that, then Darksouls 2 comes out around same time, then maybe after reviewers are in Ill try it.

I'm gonna guess you are new around here?

Edit, yup. You got some awakening to come. Shame, coz this game did seem awesome at your stage.

You talk about challenge, choices, end game, AH3.
Hang on to those for now, and get back to me in a few weeks.

I was new at D3 at one time too. Thought it was shit. I am not a slow learner and can make decision within 10 hours of playing a game. Maybe you're just burnt out. D3 should be qa nice change of pace.

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symban wrote:

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Xavderion wrote:

Again, you missed the point. I said farming + grouping + trading = solo farming. That's what you want. That eliminates a lot of challenge (like making and maintaining a good group and educating yourself about the market) and only leaves you with solo farming. There's nothing more hardcore to solo farming than to the other two things. It's actually a lot easier, that's what I'm saying all the time.

Nope it is you again who very conveniently missed the point.

You mention as if grouping is an extra challenge. I claim grouping in PoE is easy mode.

- %300 extra monster life, while %500 extra damage from players
- No risk of dying in a party, none at all. Damn so safe that I can watch TV while playing in party.
- Thanks to dedicated cullers and amazing MF bonus party gets, drops are hell a lot better! You can not balance a single char around both MF and power killing and tanking, with the same ease you do in party.
- It is damn so easy to have ALL auras in game with party.
- MUCH more easier to sustain maps

Challenges in party?
- FPS sucks (wooooo HC!)
- tough to maintain a party! (yes really relevant ARPG skills..)

Also you translate the *ability to BUY POWER* into challenge? Trade makes the game easy, and drops worthless.


You can keep dissing SFL all you want. The point is SFL players want a league to compete among themselves with game balanced based on solo play in mind. And they want this as an OPTION. But options are bad, and the ezy chezy trade/party based balanced system must be forced on everyone for sure.

Haha you simply keep ignoring my points. Good luck with your easy mode partying if you simply join random groups. Random groups suck, especially in softcore where people build glass cannons all the time. I tried mapping a lot of times with random groups, it was so much worse than simply doing it solo. So yes, you have to maintain a good and synergetic party to actually have a significant advantage towards solo play. That's something you want to eliminate but reap the same rewards. And to profit from trading you have to learn the market and invest a significant amount of time to achieve something. You also want to eliminate that step but still reap the same rewards. You want a substantially easier league. Knowing GGG, it won't happen.

Lets agree on disagree. But at least we managed to point out our opinions:

In your opinion: trade simulation and ability to find a proper group is HC play

in my opinion: it is not HC at all balancing the game around ability to buy power, and facerolling way easier with way more rewards in party

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symban wrote:

Lets agree on disagree. But at least we managed to point out our opinions:

In your opinion: trade simulation and ability to find a proper group is HC play

in my opinion: it is not HC at all balancing the game around ability to buy power, and facerolling way easier with way more rewards in party

Or to reword it, in my opinion having to do 3 things to get a result is harder than having to do 1 thing and get the same result.

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Xavderion wrote:

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symban wrote:

Lets agree on disagree. But at least we managed to point out our opinions:

In your opinion: trade simulation and ability to find a proper group is HC play

in my opinion: it is not HC at all balancing the game around ability to buy power, and facerolling way easier with way more rewards in party

Or to reword it, in my opinion having to do 3 things to get a result is harder than having to do 1 thing and get the same result.

Wrong. You obviously have no idea how hard it would be not being able to buy XXX just in 5 mins". You may or may not get it.. forever! This is where SFL >>>>> trade simulator. Right now anything you find is measured by exalts/chaos it worths. In SFL everything you find is measured by its build enabling power.

Party play right now is a total joke. It is damn so easy. If GGG were to make party more rewarding in return for making it more risky than solo, well then kudos to party guys.
But right now it is teletubbies grade. Risk vs reward? lol lower the risk, multiply the rewards. And yes I dont want that kind of setup to be the core in balancing.

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symban wrote:

Wrong. You obviously have no idea how hard it would be not being able to buy XXX just in 5 mins". You may or may not get it.. forever! This is where SFL >>>>> trade simulator. Right now anything you find is measured by exalts/chaos it worths. In SFL everything you find is measured by its build enabling power.

Party play right now is a total joke. It is damn so easy. If GGG were to make party more rewarding in return for making it more risky than solo, well then kudos to party guys.
But right now it is teletubbies grade. Risk vs reward? lol lower the risk, multiply the rewards. And yes I dont want that kind of setup to be the core in balancing.

No, since you want increased drop rates to make solo farming as efficient as grouping + trading, it wouldn't be harder. It would be a lot easier because you skip the grouping and trading part and still get the same rewards. I already said everything I wanted about party play, it's nowhere near 'a total joke' unless you find and maintain a good and synergetic group. Solo play > random groups at the moment, for most builds anyway. People cried for a reason and chose to rather play solo back when monster health increase was 75% per party member, it sucked for most groups. That's why GGG nerfed it.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

I was new at D3 at one time too. Thought it was shit. I am not a slow learner and can make decision within 10 hours of playing a game. Maybe you're just burnt out. D3 should be qa nice change of pace.

Well, you can't, really.

Because you can't get to the stage where you will see the problems in 10 hours, in fact, you haven't gotten there yet.

If you like a trade sim, you'll love it, it's hands down the best shopping game out. Because it has a really good aRPG as a side game, although you have to accept the trading will diminish the challenging aspect of the aRPG. Catch 22, there.

But you mention you like self found, you mention you like choices and challenge. You also speak of end game, partying and of AH3.

PoE plays out just like D3 for the Act content, except it has the awesome character building that D3 sorely lacked.

It's great, it really is, you fight monsters at whatever challenge level suits you, either farm safe or push ahead, reaping the benefits of better gear if you push but with added danger.

That all goes out of the window at maps. This is where D3 trumps PoE, whether it was vanilla, MP or RoS.

This is what you have to look forward to.
Access to content which quickly becomes a faceroll, solo, self found.
Maps that are still a challenge are gated from you, requiring an amount of orbs to roll such that you have some sort of chance to progress maps, which will take around 50 times the time to loot than to run the map.

So here is your choices; you either farm non-challenging content for say 50 hours to roll a challenging map to the point it has an acceptable possibility to give another challenging map, or you party up and split the cost, or you trade. Trading, as you know, will diminish the challenge. As will grouping, to a massive degree. Do your 50 hour grind, get lucky (or not) and get another map that lvl or +1 or +2 and it's back to faceroll farming for you. Don't get another and you dropped down to your next highest map.

You can sustain the content on trade alone, or in a group which will also require some trading. But solo self found, nope, not without an obscene ratio of farming faceroll content.

Here's the thing. Even if you take the solo self found route, suck up the faceroll farming and call it a necessary bore to unlock the challenge every so often; you will in fact outgear the content due to the number of rares and uniques you get from the faceroll, the high rolled ones will outgear you for the challenge, often before you even see it. And if you do see it, it's a glimpse in hours upon hours upon hours of farming stupidly easy content for the insane amount of orbs you require.

You can forget about crafting, or you can forget about end game content and just replace challenge in the above explanation with crafting. Although your 50 hours farming will get you more in the region of 5 mins crafting with no results.

Or, trade party faceroll, use the 3rd party AHs and call yourself a hardcore aRPG gamer.

One thing D3 never, ever did, was tell me I had to trade; not to craft, not to advance and not for challenge. It sucked in many ways, but imho, no matter how good an aRPG is, such as PoE with all the awesome, it fails when it takes this design.

Now read what I just said. I had over 3500 hours in D3, I had over 5100 hours in PoE.
Solo, self found in both. And now look at what you wrote in the quote below. I ain't shitting ya.

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Aim_Deep wrote:

Yeah that dude is being a bit foolish. I joined a group once. Face roll even with my crappy self founded gear. Never again. Felt like diablo - main reason I left is game was too easy.

Items - every item I pick up i relish seeing. If I trade that will ruin it and make game ez mode.

I agree make self founded league. I don't need to compete with stay at home nerds because I only have time for 2 hours a night after work. But if you want it I see no reason why not. PoE will lose some customers to D3 too who is all self found now.

Let me just throw something else in..
How many chaos and chisels have you found?
An end game map will require 4 chisels, 1 Alch and anywhere between 0 and fucking loads of chaos. Should you be lucky enough to get a map from your map and chain that luck. Not only can you not sustain the chaos, or the chisels, but you don't even get 1 alch per map. Food for thought.

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Xavderion wrote:

No, since you want increased drop rates to make solo farming as efficient as grouping + trading, it wouldn't be harder. It would be a lot easier because you skip the grouping and trading part and still get the same rewards. I already said everything I wanted about party play, it's nowhere near 'a total joke' unless you find and maintain a good and synergetic group. Solo play > random groups at the moment, for most builds anyway. People cried for a reason and chose to rather play solo back when monster health increase was 75% per party member, it sucked for most groups. That's why GGG nerfed it.

As someone who played only solo in POE: it is very difficult. (DIFFICULT meaning only TIME CONSUMING... it's a faulty difficulty just for the record. It's kiting, and slowing damaging mobs.)

When I look in on streamers facerolling in groups - and these aren't top level streamers (gonna cut you off right there because I saw that point coming a mile away) - it is a joke in comparison.

I have ONE SPEC... one very specific cyclone build that was able to really faceroll pretty well. It involves a legacy 999% facebreakers.

I've followed guide after guide... I've made my own builds using all of the tools I could get my hands on... I've leveled so many 75+ level characters only to find them suck terribly in "end game" situations.

But watching people in groups steam-roll through the same shit that takes me kiting... and nickle and diming mobs?

It just lends me to think: man this guy Xav must 1) not solo ever 2) not do any research at all on the topics he loves to speak about. Your experience here is completely different than what I'm seeing in terms of solo vs group play.

1>60? Not an issue for any build. Even terrible builds can move slick through this content. Gear means nothing. You can be a derp and still easily breeze solo mode up to merci dom. No sweat at all.

But 60>onwards (well 75 onwards in truth) is really fucking slow going as a solo player.

Played D3 nonstop the first 4 months before I found PoE.

I seriously don't care about RoS and don't plan on picking it up when it comes out. Maybe if they offer it at a discount, but I'd rather give my money to GGG.

Also, is there really hype surrounding RoS? Beta has been out for a while and the only hype (if any) was at BlizzCon. I watched the panels, they were boring as hell.

Maybe make a TV reality show called Titty Miscreations in Tiaras: