iron reflexes vs full evasion

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and I really can't understand why are you so hurt when I say that evasion builds are prone to one shot and yet you don't provide arguments against that.

My last char was Melee(Frenzy with ST) Evasion/Acro based and i must agree with this quote but only with a low HP char like this

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I've done, as melee, double 77 bosses with 2.5k hp

I think that below ~4k/4.5k hp u are really subject to be 1 shotted one day or an other by a Yellow phys based with hard rolls.
But with big amount of life i don't think 1 shot is a problem unless u take a Vaal Smash of course.
I speak about attacks of course.

But for me spells are more dangerous in end games maps than attacks for any char armor or eva anyway.

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Ceryneian wrote:

Please do - you clearly have nothing more to say now that your arguments have been shut down and your cluelessness about evasion has become apparent.

Damn, now I know why you're not objective on this manner, you have your guide posted there, well no wonder then, you have to blindly defend yourself.

I have to put an end to your parade here, I can't resist...

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Ceryneian wrote:

Why do you keep asking how evasion entropy helps? Anything that helps you avoid damage helps prevent oneshots. Why is that so hard to understand?

Wrong.

Even with 5% chance to get hit, you have a decent chance of getting one shot in high level maps with some damage mods.

I've seen in your Courtyard video that a white bear hit you for 50% of your life, now imagine if that hit which passed through your evasion/block was from a magic hard hitting monster with a damage mod? Or even an Avian Wretch which even hit me for 4k life with 50k+ armour, if that hit passed through your evasion, you'd be one shot even if you had 10k+ life.

I don't think you know what the word "prone" means.

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Fact is that one shots are a function of life - again why can't you understand that? Anything that would one shot me on 2.5k health or 3.8k health with evasion, will one shot me if I had armor. This is why I said you need to compare armor to evasion on equal life. If you think a 9k life evasion build would be worried about one shots - then you are very wrong indeed.

Well that depends how hard that hit was, if the hit dealt 3.2k damage it would one shot you with 2.5k life, but wouldn't with 3.8k life.
If the hit was 4.5k, and passed your evasion/block, you're one shot.

With armour, that 3.2k damage is reduced, depends on how high the armour is, if it's 50k+, with 2.5k you wouldn't be one shot, let alone with 3.8k life.

That's why I say evasion is prone to one shot, unlike armour.

9k life evasion build is still prone to one shots, on maps with damage mods, depending on the monster that hits.
While 9k life armour build, isn't.

And the ultimate proof of how you're full of shit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHhpSlUCkHg&feature=youtu.be

Why did you leap slam away from ToG? Is it because you're prone to one shots?

I hope you're done!

If you are worried about elemental attack damage - evasion is king. Armor is useless here as it does not work against elemental attack damage

"

Why did you leap slam away from ToG? Is it because you're prone to one shots?

With 4k life any char is prone to one shot against a lvl 78 ToG.

Haha - Tinko back at it again. He ignored the life argument about one shots. He asked for a build, but when i point him to my build as an example he gets angry. And still trying to poke holes in my 4k evasion melee build. Good job - you scrolled through my vids and found the 1% of cases when I take a hit, but you are happy to ignore the 99% of times when I fight at full life because I take no damage lol.

I also like how it is ok for Tinko to reference his build in this thread, but somehow when he asks for an evasion build example - I can't use mine?

Lol - I mentioned in the other thread why I use leap slam even though Touch of God misses numerous times in a row for me - why tank when I can easily avoid it with a simple key press? This is exactly the mindset of armor players trying to do things the hard way when there is a much easier way. You don't need 9k life lol to do double shrine, I've shown you can do it with 2.5k. I want to make a vid showing how many times ToG misses in a row, but I don't want to get nerfed =).

See this is exactly what I said earlier - it doesn't matter how much you show these guys - they will always be convinced that their way is the only way.

End-game, evasion is a much more powerful defense than armor simply because anything that doesn't kill an armor user in 1 hit, will hit the armor user again, and again, and again. An armor user might be a -little- bit harder to 1 shot, but they have to worry about 2 shots, 3 shots, 4 shots. Life leech is capped at 25% of your HP per second, if you get hit 4 times in a row you're dead. An End-game evasion/acro character will not get hit 4 times in a row, the chance of that happening so astronomically low.

The problem gets worse as damage gets higher because armor's mitigation gets LOWER the bigger the hit is. So in endgame 1-shot situations armor is at it's weakest, there is very little difference between an armor 1-shot and an evasion 1-shot.


lets take an example.

9k life + 95% evasion vs 9k life + 50k armor

it would take a 9k hit to 1-shot the evasion tank, but on average it would take 20 of these 9k hits for one to actually hit them. To the armor tank, the same 9k hit would only do 6151 damage, the armor tank would then die on the next 9k hit almost gauranteed.

Overall, there are a lot of factors that need to come into play, its not all about 1 hits, it's about instantanious damage taken per second. If that instantanious damage taken per second value exceeds your life or life leech then you will die no matter what defenses you have. Endgame though, evasion will have much more time to leech back their health than an armor character would which puts evasion on top.

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Yesu wrote:

"

Why did you leap slam away from ToG? Is it because you're prone to one shots?

With 4k life any char is prone to one shot against a ToG and it's a spell.

It's not a spell, it's an attack, part physical and part lightning.

If a white bear hit him for 2k life, that ToG would obliterate him even with 6k life without any damage mod.
With 2-3 damage mods not even 13k life would've helped him, if the attack passes through evasion/block, of course.

That is the whole point, one shot proneness.

Examples of non-boss monsters with 2-3 damage map mods that can one shot evasion build even with 10k life: Avian Wretch, rare colossal skeleton and bear, on-death spike guys, bubble guys, etc.

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Haha - Tinko back at it again. He ignored my life argument about one shots. He asked for a build, but when i point him to my build as an example he gets angry. And still trying to poke holes in my 4k evasion melee build. Good job - you scrolled through my vids and found the 1% of cases when I take a large hit, but you are happy to ignore the 99% of times when I fight at full life because I take no damage lol.

Ignored your life "argument"? Read again. I think I've described it pretty accurately.

I'm not poking holes, that's what you think, you have some sick need to defend something that cannot be defended because it's a fact, just to make yourself feel superior.

Hello? We're talking about hard hits, that's when one shots occur, please, whatever you're trying to do, it's pathetic at best.

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Lol - I mentioned in the other thread why I use leap slam even though Touch of God misses numerous times in a row for me - why tank when I can easily avoid it with a simple key press? This is exactly the mindset of armor players trying to do things the hard way when there is a much easier way. You don't need 9k life lol to do double shrine, I've shown you can do it with 2.5k. I want to make a vid showing how many times ToG misses in a row, but I don't want to get nerfed =).

That ToG leap slamming was just an example of you're shitting here, if you're as brave in the game as you're brave here, you wouldn't leap slam, because you're not prone to one shots, right?

You did that Shrine without a damage increasing mod.

You don't want to make a video of taking ToG because you're afraid that chance of one shot will happen when you record it :)

But even if you manage to do it, it doesn't prove anything, you just got lucky. And lucky gameplay won't get you to 97+ level.

"

It is always hilarious when some tank guy joins 78 maps and then either skips the boss or is there for 10mins, while the rest of the group is finishing up the next map. The point of the game is to kill bosses and get loot, not to see who can afk the longest lol.

Can't see how is this relevant, your DPS is 18k, and you're mocking those people, it just shows what kind of self-centered person you are.

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Since you didn't read things I wrote in my last posts and you obviously have no idea what the word "prone" is, and you continued blindly defending yourself even though the fact is on the table.

Evasion for melee is fine, but it's not for 94+ level characters, where you lose 4+ hours of 78 lvl map grinding if you get one shot, unless you intend to skip harder content.

If they made it easier to roll off color slots on items I'd really like to try a full evasion build, I imagine a ranger would be a great build to go all out evasion, most of the gems you use are green.

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demivion wrote:

Spoiler

End-game, evasion is a much more powerful defense than armor simply because anything that doesn't kill an armor user in 1 hit, will hit the armor user again, and again, and again. An armor user might be a -little- bit harder to 1 shot, but they have to worry about 2 shots, 3 shots, 4 shots. Life leech is capped at 25% of your HP per second, if you get hit 4 times in a row you're dead. An End-game evasion/acro character will not get hit 4 times in a row, the chance of that happening so astronomically low.

The problem gets worse as damage gets higher because armor's mitigation gets LOWER the bigger the hit is. So in endgame 1-shot situations armor is at it's weakest, there is very little difference between an armor 1-shot and an evasion 1-shot.


lets take an example.

9k life + 95% evasion vs 9k life + 50k armor

it would take a 9k hit to 1-shot the evasion tank, but on average it would take 20 of these 9k hits for one to actually hit them. To the armor tank, the same 9k hit would only do 6151 damage, the armor tank would then die on the next 9k hit almost gauranteed.

Overall, there are a lot of factors that need to come into play, its not all about 1 hits, it's about instantanious damage taken per second. If that instantanious damage taken per second value exceeds your life or life leech then you will die no matter what defenses you have. Endgame though, evasion will have much more time to leech back their health than an armor character would which puts evasion on top.

Your example is theoretically fine, but practically, not.

While the evasion character is dead, the armour can move away or leech their way back.

And we all know that PoE is famous with it's one shot mechanics.
More than half deaths in 96+ level are by one shots, from my experience.


So, if you claim indeed that evasion is better, prove it, what else can I say...

Nope Tinko - sorry you are wrong again. You are ignoring the life argument because you fail to acknowledge that a 9k life build with evasion does not care about 1 shots, just as an armor build would not.

What do levels have to do with anything? If someone is on level 99 and another person is level 90 - you really think that means one build is stronger than the other? Or are you now just trolling us? Btw - there are people doing my build that are level 94+. Nemesis guys that are 85+.

It is also funny how you keep talking about being lucky. Really makes it clear to me that you still don't understand that evasion is not pure RNG. If your build is so invicible to luck - why are you playing in Standard?

And no - the last thing I want is a reason for GGG to nerf evasion, so I will not be making that vid public =).