iron reflexes vs full evasion

"

Yesu wrote:

"

now imagine if that was a rare bear with 2-3 damage mods.

Well we can take a look at this. A 2k hit with "extra damage" + "Allies Deal Substantial Extra Physical Damage " aura + "x% increased Monster Damage" from map = 2000(1+0.25+0.5+0.35) = 4200 physical damage.

A dude with 20k armor which is a fair amount would still take ~3367 damages.

And the dude with no or 6k armour would get one shot at his 3.8k life.

"

And the dude with no or 6k armour would get one shot at his 3.8k life

Personnaly i agree with u on this point. 3.8k hp is very low for a melee char and will be one shoted one day or an other, even if armor based by the way.

Any build with more than 6k HP is functionally immune to one shots barring multi-damage rolled maps with vulnerability.

Which will kill Armour just as easy as evasion.

Man I leave for 10 hours and there's 4 pages of arguing with tinko. Why do you even bother? Ignore him.

"

Yesu wrote:

"

now imagine if that was a rare bear with 2-3 damage mods.

Well we can take a look at this. A 2k hit with "extra damage" + "Allies Deal Substantial Extra Physical Damage " aura + "x% increased Monster Damage" from map = 2000(1+0.25+0.5+0.35) = 4200 physical damage.

A dude with 20k armor which is a fair amount would still take ~3367 damages.

Your math is way off. 20k armour mitigates about 37% of the hits so they take 2646 damage. If They additionall had 4 endurance charges(trivially easy with CoDT) that goes to 53% mitigation- so they take 1974 damage.

"

bilun wrote:

"

Yesu wrote:

"

now imagine if that was a rare bear with 2-3 damage mods.

Well we can take a look at this. A 2k hit with "extra damage" + "Allies Deal Substantial Extra Physical Damage " aura + "x% increased Monster Damage" from map = 2000(1+0.25+0.5+0.35) = 4200 physical damage.

A dude with 20k armor which is a fair amount would still take ~3367 damages.

Your math is way off. 20k armour mitigates about 37% of the hits so they take 2646 damage. If They additionall had 4 endurance charges(trivially easy with CoDT) that goes to 53% mitigation- so they take 1974 damage.

you know that armor doesnt mitigrate % of the damage and that % is a fake for an "average hit of an average mob of your level" right?

armor has a very weird curve for mitigration that derives from this equation:
Net Damage = Raw Damage^2 / (Raw Damage + Armour / 12)

it basically means that each point of armor will mitigrate MAXIMUM of 12 damage.

the lower the hit, the higher the % mitigration but lower the actual number of mitigration, while higher hits will mean that armor will slowly try to reach it's theoritical ceiling of 12damage/1armor but lower the total % of mitigration

tl:dr:


the higher the hit, the lower your armor absorbs, dont look at the % it is fake

edit:

although with the above, it makes a 4.2k hit=3k hit, not 3367

"

shroudb wrote:

you know that armor doesnt mitigrate % of the damage and that % is a fake for an "average hit of an average mob of your level" right?

armor has a very weird curve for mitigration that derives from this equation:
Net Damage = Raw Damage^2 / (Raw Damage + Armour / 12)

it basically means that each point of armor will mitigrate MAXIMUM of 12 damage.

the lower the hit, the higher the % mitigration but lower the actual number of mitigration, while higher hits will mean that armor will slowly try to reach it's theoritical ceiling of 12damage/1armor but lower the total % of mitigration

tl:dr:


the higher the hit, the lower your armor absorbs, dont look at the % it is fake

I know(The tooltip estimated absorption for 20k armour Is WAY higher then the 37% I listed), but after your dispute and checking the formula I realized I had a misunderstanding- I had remembered the absorption as Armour / ( Armour + (8 * Damage) )--- I was wrong the actual equation is Armour / ( Armour + (12 * Damage) ).


I remembered the *12 as *8- so my numbers were off; my mistake.

Even so the guy I quoted still had the wrong numbers. With the *12 multiplier 20k armour still mitigates 28%- that's 3024 damage taken, or after 4 endurance charges(44% mitigation) 2352 damage.

"

bilun wrote:

"

shroudb wrote:

you know that armor doesnt mitigrate % of the damage and that % is a fake for an "average hit of an average mob of your level" right?

armor has a very weird curve for mitigration that derives from this equation:
Net Damage = Raw Damage^2 / (Raw Damage + Armour / 12)

it basically means that each point of armor will mitigrate MAXIMUM of 12 damage.

the lower the hit, the higher the % mitigration but lower the actual number of mitigration, while higher hits will mean that armor will slowly try to reach it's theoritical ceiling of 12damage/1armor but lower the total % of mitigration

tl:dr:


the higher the hit, the lower your armor absorbs, dont look at the % it is fake

I know(The tooltip estimated absorption for 20k armour Is WAY higher then the 37% I listed), but after your dispute and checking the formula I realized I had a misunderstanding- I had remembered the absorption as Armour / ( Armour + (8 * Damage) )--- I was wrong the actual equation is Armour / ( Armour + (12 * Damage) ).


I remembered the *12 as *8- so my numbers were off; my mistake.

Even so the guy I quoted still had the wrong numbers. With the *12 multiplier 20k armour still mitigates 28%- that's 3024 damage taken, or after 4 endurance charges(44% mitigation) 2352 damage.

nvm my mistake

Indeed, made a mistake :> , but endu charges beneficit evasion as well as armor.

4200*1= 4200
4200*0.72= 3024 --> 4200-3024 = 1176

4200*0.84 = 3528
4200*0.56 = 2352 --> 3528-2352 = 1176

so including them is not really important.

Not to mention that one can get over 40k with almost no armour investment.

For example, ~3000 base armour from gear and only 6 armour nodes.

~50k with Jade/Granite combo, without Grace.

So we can assume that you can freely put 40k in that formula instead of 20k.

Agree on charges, they serve both, just like resistances vs. elemental damage.
Only thing might be different is that armour based characters tend to have more charges.

"

tinko92 wrote:

Not to mention that one can get over 40k with almost no armour investment.

For example, ~3000 base armour from gear and only 6 armour nodes.

~50k with Jade/Granite combo, without Grace.

So we can assume that you can freely put 40k in that formula instead of 20k.

Agree on charges, they serve both, just like resistances vs. elemental damage.
Only thing might be different is that armour based characters tend to have more charges.

i doubt that a lot of people are using double flasks vs white monsters.

and you could only have 50k armor if you also run determination alongside if you only have 3kbase armor+6nodes.

assuming that you get ~100% from the 6 passives, and you have two perfect flasks, that is still just 9k*3=27k armor.

and again, physical, as long as there is immortal call isnt that big of an issue.

the real advantages of armor vs evasion are that they proc things like cwdt/cos much easier and that they dont need that high of investment (in my aura build with double flask running i have close to 80k armor, things STILL hurt)