iron reflexes vs full evasion

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tinko92 wrote:

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Ceryneian wrote:

Tinko back at it again. I found it surprising to learn that he didn't even know how evasion worked with entropy, nor did he know that it was rolled twice against crits. He has also never played a high level evasion melee character.

Tinko - you may know a lot about armor, but I just lol when I see you posting about evasion because you clearly have no experience & knowledge on evasion.

How does that have to do with anything?
Before I found out that, I wasn't saying evasion sucks or anything, I was asking for a video, a proof, that it's better than armour in terms of tanking, what was being discussed there.
And in the end, it's proved that evasion is far less effective.


Are you saying that evasion isn't prone to one shots? Which is all about here.

What does that have to do with anything? You are commenting on something you clearly a) do not understand, b) have never played correctly.

Evasion is more complicated than armor, so it does not surprise me that armor fans keep repeating the same thing they hear from each other, but can never think for themselves.

Tinko you are too full yourself - just because your armor build on 9k life can tank, does not mean an evasion build (done right) on 9k life cannot tank. Just because you have never seen a video, that does not mean it is not possible.

I am so tired of arguing armor fans because they are all convinced their way is the one and only way, and everything else is crap. You can even show them videos and they will never change their minds.

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Ceryneian wrote:

What does that have to do with anything? You are commenting on something you clearly a) do not understand, b) have never played correctly.

Evasion is more complicated than armor, so it does not surprise me that armor fans keep repeating the same thing they hear from each other, but can never think for themselves.

Tinko you are too full yourself - just because your armor build on 9k life can tank, does not mean an evasion build (done right) on 9k life cannot tank. Just because you have never seen a video, that does not mean it is not possible.

I am so tired of arguing armor fans because they are all convinced their way is the one and only way, and everything else is crap. You can even show them videos and they will never change their minds.

I wasn't commenting it sucks overall, I was saying it's prone to one shot, and then I learned about the entropy part which doesn't affect the one shot at all.

I don't bash things blindly, I've got no reason to, but I like numbers and proofs.

You're talking bullshit here and don't mix up the tanking part with this where I've said that evasion is prone to one shots.
Continue that in the right thread, otherwise don't mention it at all.

You see, patronizing tactic is a shitty one.
I'm not an armour fan, I'm an armour "user" and I like to discuss every defensive mechanic.
I've never said that armour is the one and only way, you're putting words in my mouth, and if you're going to continue with bullshit just let me know, I won't reply anymore.

Please, show me the videos since numbers aren't in "your" favour, I was asking for them in that other thread, I got none, but I did got the same butthurt bullshit, and I really can't understand why are you so hurt when I say that evasion builds are prone to one shot and yet you don't provide arguments against that.


EDIT:
To point out why am I different from you...
Someone might say I'm not afk-viable, good, I agree, if I wanted that I'd supply myself with Aegis Aurora.
But I'm aware that I can't do it.

avoiding things like fist of god and etc doesn't make someone a "bad" tank, if anything it makes him a better tank for staying aware, at least this is my opinion.

the thing is, that most of those 6k+ hits can either be avoided coprarativly easy (hand of god, vaal smash, etc) or are crits.

evasion characters have way less chance to be critted, if you add the second reroll in the equation between full block, acro, evasion, etc then you get with a ridicusly low chance to be critted at all:

with max block/acro/and 60% eva (not hard to get there) you have a 0,25*0,4*0,4*0,6*crit chance= 0,024 *monster's crit chance to be critted at all.

even vs a 20% crit monster you will be only be critted on average less than 0,5%, that's 200hits.

assuming you need 2 consecutive such crits to die then the chance is astronomically low.

BUT it requires much more investment than simply stacking armor, so you need a group to actually provide the damage, much more than an armor tank would.

at least that's my OPINION, because in a conversation where there is not even a clear "definition" of "tank" EVERYTHING is opinion (p.e. someone might say a true tank can be afk, or another one might say a true tank doesnt need to doge anything, another like me might say that a tank can easily dodge heavy hits and not stand there to eat them just for giggles, etc)

Agree on the said, and I've never said differently as some imply I did.

The one shot part is bugging them, and I really can't see why, because it is how it is, it's not about opinions.

Haha - no one is butthurt here. Maybe because you dont have any good argument you resort to that attack. If anyone is butthurt here- it is you because you can't come to grips with the fact that armor is not the only way to play melee.

And you ask for "numbers" lol - what numbers do you want? You keep talking about one shots but you don't realize that is all a function of life. 9k life armor vs 9k life evasion build is what you should be comparing, in case you didn't realize. And evasion is not prone to one shots when built right - of course you wouldn't know this because you have never played a strong evasion build. You need to think outside the box man.

Also you say evasion entropy doesn't help - LOL. Why do you even bother trying to pretend you know evasion? You are just embarrassing yourself. Do you know what it means by "guarantee" to not get hit?

I have played both armor and evasion builds to level 80+. What I hate is how the meta game favors armor with uniques, gems and passives. But evasion is still very very strong and definitely viable for melee endgame. It is stronger than armor in certain situations, just as armor is stronger than evasion in certain situations.

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Ceryneian wrote:

Haha - no one is butthurt here. Maybe because you dont have any good argument you resort to that attack. If anyone is butthurt here- it is you because you can't come to grips with the fact that armor is not the only way to play melee.

Will you stop with the bullshit? And to prove your bullshit, quote where I've said armour is the only way to play melee.

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And you ask for "numbers" lol - what numbers do you want? You keep talking about one shots but you don't realize that is all a function of life. 9k life armor vs 9k life evasion build is what you should be comparing, in case you didn't realize. And evasion is not prone to one shots when built right - of course you wouldn't know this because you have never played a strong evasion build. You need to think outside the box man.

Okay then, lets try.
How is the evasion built right so it isn't prone to one shots?
Since I haven't played pure evasion build, I'm asking you to provide me with facts, and yet you're constantly evading (irony) my questions and keep going the same way.

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Also you say evasion entropy doesn't help - LOL. Why do you even bother trying to pretend you know evasion? You are just embarrassing yourself. Do you know what it means by "guarantee" to not get hit?

How is evasion entropy helping against one shots?

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I have played both armor and evasion builds to level 80+. What I hate is how the meta game favors armor with uniques, gems and passives. But evasion is still very very strong and definitely viable for melee endgame. It is stronger than armor in certain situations, just as armor is stronger than evasion in certain situations.

You see, if you actually read what I've wrote you wouldn't even write this.
I never said evasion isn't viable for melee endgame.

Oh, and look at the last sentence, is it possible? That is what I'm saying the whole time, if you only bothered to focus.

Lol you sound like some kid whining about one shots. Seems to me that is the only argument you have about evasion. I've done, as melee, double 77 bosses with 2.5k hp, I've also done 77-78 bosses with 3.8k hp - sorry but no oneshots.

If you want me to tell you how to build a strong evasion build - check out my guide.

Why do you keep asking how evasion entropy helps? Anything that helps you avoid damage helps prevent oneshots. Why is that so hard to understand?

Fact is that one shots are a function of life - again why can't you understand that? Anything that would one shot me on 2.5k health or 3.8k health with evasion, will one shot me if I had armor. This is why I said you need to compare armor to evasion on equal life. If you think a 9k life evasion build would be worried about one shots - then you are very wrong indeed.

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Ceryneian wrote:

Lol you sound like some kid whining about one shots. Seems to me that is the only argument you have about evasion. I've done, as melee, double 77 bosses with 2.5k hp, I've also done 77-78 bosses with 3.8k hp - sorry but no oneshots.

If you want me to tell you how to build a strong evasion build - check out my guide.

Why do you keep asking how evasion entropy helps? Anything that helps you avoid damage helps prevent oneshots. Why is that so hard to understand?

Fact is that one shots are a function of life - again why can't you understand that? Anything that would one shot me on 2.5k health or 3.8k health with evasion, will one shot me if I had armor. This is why I said you need to compare armor to evasion on equal life. If you think a 9k life evasion build would be worried about one shots - then you are very wrong indeed.

Whining about one shots?
I just said that evasion is prone to one shots, if you see whining in there, seek help.

"only argument about evasion" - what are you trying here? Do you feel attacked? I believe you do, and why... it's beyond me.

After this bolded part, I think I'll stop right here... you're hilarious

well ive had a look at the trees and im most likely to go with this:



i did really want to try acrobatics and try a full evasion build but it takes so many more points to get all the required nodes and trying to roll R-R-R-G on an evasion vest is going to be tough much easier to roll it on a eva/arm vest.

i will make a ranger at some point and go full evasion then.

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tinko92 wrote:

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Ceryneian wrote:

Lol you sound like some kid whining about one shots. Seems to me that is the only argument you have about evasion. I've done, as melee, double 77 bosses with 2.5k hp, I've also done 77-78 bosses with 3.8k hp - sorry but no oneshots.

If you want me to tell you how to build a strong evasion build - check out my guide.

Why do you keep asking how evasion entropy helps? Anything that helps you avoid damage helps prevent oneshots. Why is that so hard to understand?

Fact is that one shots are a function of life - again why can't you understand that? Anything that would one shot me on 2.5k health or 3.8k health with evasion, will one shot me if I had armor. This is why I said you need to compare armor to evasion on equal life. If you think a 9k life evasion build would be worried about one shots - then you are very wrong indeed.

Whining about one shots?
I just said that evasion is prone to one shots, if you see whining in there, seek help.

"only argument about evasion" - what are you trying here? Do you feel attacked? I believe you do, and why... it's beyond me.

After this bolded part, I think I'll stop right here... you're hilarious

Please do - you clearly have nothing more to say now that your arguments have been shut down and your cluelessness about evasion has become apparent.