The reason for the low level of active players in Path of Exile

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mushioov wrote:

Again great post that sums up well the issues here. GGG should start reading your posts.

I'm so looking forward to the day you get to end game mapping and realise for the last year or 2, you have been dismissing really relevant concerns.

What do you do?
Come clean that you have been so easily dismissing concerns that you had zero experience of?
Pretend they still don't exist to save face? Or quietly disappear?

I mean, your bluff was called a while back, but you still continue.

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the key word in the OP is competitive. If you want to be competitive you have to put in as much effort as the people you are competing against. Period. You wont beat out someone that is playing way more than you are. If you are competing you have to compete, not just be awarded a win because you wanted it.

If you cant compete or dont want to put in the effort to really compete...dont try to be competitive. I dont know why this needs to be explained. The only reason people have to play so much to even 'compete' is because their competitors are playing so much. It has nothing to do with the rewards of the game.

This is true for the most part, the only thing that bothers people about it in PoE imo, is that it is entirely "wealth" based.

Therefore somebody without principles with always outrank somebody with principles, and that stings. Not to mention the use of RMT while some other top players refuse to default to that in order to secure a win.

It's a crazy web GGG has themselves in, that is all.

I am pretty sure a lot of the competition will move away to non "wealth" based games, where the progress is determined by player skill.
And that is not a "doomed WHERE ALL DOOMED" thing to say, it is just quite clear to see the people react to the top-ladder/the CoD bug that left unchanged and other factors people are not willing to put up with in a competition.

There will always be some competition left, but imo at the end it will just be the biggest assholes competing with another, resulting in an endless loop where being an even bigger asshole grants you victory. That wont be "fun" or "cool" to compete in.

Edit :

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So the questions, and what should have been talked about in this thread, is: How can GGG get those people that find the game not "fulfilling", without betraying those who want a more hardcore experience? And how can it take full advantage of its "unique selling point" (the endless possibilites), again, without betraying the hardcore crowd?

This is for me the essence of OP's post. Not the 1,500 hours played, not making PoE drop BiS items like flies, but this. It's a point very worthy of discussion. But what we got was hysterical bickering and accusations. It wasn't in the OP, it was in everyone who thinks taking sides and defending that side and attacking those on the other side is more important than the game.

Very well put, sometimes i take the fact that i don't take sides for granted. But this has indeed turned into a poo flinging contest where everybody ends up covered in poo.

About the bolded part :

It's quite easy, make the rare quest rewards give "static rare rewards" instead of RNG determined ones. Don't make them ubber rare pieces, just medium/ build enabling rares designed to fit the content level they are received in. A dropped rare could still be better, but at least you have something to fall back on, giving a more "fun" gaming experience.

It's all about time investment in the early stages of the game.
The question i ask myself then is, why does one have to grind at the early stage of the game?

The reason i ask this is the following;

The "hardcore" scene of the game already skips this content like a mouse on speed they run for end game maps in 1 day tops.
For them the "endgame" experience is found in maps/BiS gear/and grinding xp.

It is however not located in normal/cruel and the start of merciless. Changing these parts of the game or making them more "user friendly" would do absolutely nothing to the "endgame" for the "hardcore" players.

There is also another factor at work here, and its the skills and support gems. The game is incredibly boring to a new player imo.
He is not aware of link's or support gems, since he lacks this knowledge he cannot even imagine what possibility's can be achieved in the game system. And the fun with skills + supports only starts at around cruell/merciless for really interesting combo's. Far to late to entice a player to stay, most will have left before this point.

The lack of tutorials, that can demonstrate endgame effect's to newb players without giving them to them freely is a big flaw in order to keep players playing.

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Jojas wrote:

So the questions, and what should have been talked about in this thread, is: How can GGG get those people that find the game not "fulfilling", without betraying those who want a more hardcore experience? And how can it take full advantage of its "unique selling point" (the endless possibilites), again, without betraying the hardcore crowd?

If you make builds less time-consuming to complete, the hardcore crowd still has powerful rares+uniques and level 100 to chase. Not to mention other stuff like races and PvP.

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Boem wrote:

Therefore somebody without principles with always outrank somebody with principles, and that stings.

Many times, this is true in life in general. I dont think it is as absolute as 'always', but it for sure is a thing. I still side with scruples and morals. I find them to be more rewarding than being 'the best'. Look at major league baseball for example. I think the steroids use is a disgusting bastardization of competition, but there are a lot a lot of people that would just assume that all the other players better use steroids as well if they want to compete. I will never agree with them, and thus my favorite player would probably never beat their favorite player in a slugging contest. (for the record I dont have a favorite player and dont like MLB, just an example here).

It is similar in many aspects of life, there is tangible rewards for being the dick head. The problem for some in PoE is they want to be king dick head, and getting beat out.

You make me smile Jojas. :)

I believe one of those things GGG can do is straightforward and simple, as the best solutions always are. Increase drop rates of uniques, but do not make rares any easier to get.

I can hardly fathom how tabu is has become on PoE forums to mention any kind of softening up of any aspect whatsoever, but i cannot allow myself to damage the game by throwing away my judgement.

Assume we boost unique drop rates by 40%, players will still be farming literally hundreds of hours to purchase that one item. Even up to 400 or more hours just to acquire a single item. It will not ruin the game, i believe it will make it a better game because there is no doubt that PoE is one of the more unrewarding games i have ever come across, many many times more unrewarding than playing LoD on battle net ever was.

I made a thread about that:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/769303/page/1

It is a dangerzone in there however, these people are extremely sensitive to making the game ligther in any way.

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Crackmonster wrote:

You make me smile Jojas. :)

I believe one of those things GGG can do is straightforward and simple, as the best solutions always are. Increase drop rates of uniques, but do not make rares any easier to get.

I can hardly fathom how tabu is has become on PoE forums to mention any kind of softening up of any aspect whatsoever, but i cannot allow myself to damage the game by throwing away my judgement.

Assume we boost unique drop rates by 40%, players will still be farming literally hundreds of hours to purchase that one item. Even up to 400 or more hours just to acquire a single item. It will not ruin the game, i believe it will make it a better game because there is no doubt that PoE is one of the more unrewarding games i have ever come across, many many times more unrewarding than playing LoD on battle net ever was.

I made a thread about that:

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/769303/page/1

It is a dangerzone in there however, these people are extremely sensitive to making the game ligther in any way.

Keep in mind that different uniques have different droprates, not to mention, the reason ggg keeps adding low level uniques on every patch is (probably) to have new people find them more often, thus providing a motivator to keep going.

I believe it is more to have a more varied and thus deeper itemization that they keep adding uniques, something i greatly appreciate!

I suggested around 25-100% increase in drop rate depending on the unique. Around 25-45% is probably more realistic.

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Spysong192 wrote:

So you´re now telling me that YOUR view is the only "good" one and who are those "people"? Are they here in this thread? Can you point them out? Or is this again a generalization? Also what´s "QQ"? Isn´t QQ also called feedback? Doesn´t some of those feedback worked in the past in a good way like loot allocation?

I should have underlined "so MY point? play the game as it is"

MY POINT

MY POINT

MY POINT

And please tell me where i wrote "my point view is the only good one" ;/ please feel free to quote me

Also "TO ME it just SEEMS that none" is yes a generalization; but contestualize with all the post, don't pull out only some fragments.

Feel also free to substitute "none" with "some players" or "much players" or wathever, the point of the sentence won't change.

I believe a lot of the problems currently in the game stem from having only 30% of the content.

I personally believe Path of Exile will be a truly rewarding experience once it has 100% content and is entirely finished.

Some of the main offenders on gameplay experience currently in the game are :

Replay ability (same content x3 gets boring at a rapid pace)

Current endgame (just a placeholder to give people something to do at endgame, unrefined and unpolished and will probably be removed or secondary to the eventual endgame)

Loots (this will also change extensively once the game reaches 100% content and can be balanced around a finished product, instead of an ever evolving product)

That is not to say they should not try to address these issue's currently. But i think they will also resolve themselves in due time when the game is finished.

That is of course my own prediction. And might not be seen as a positive thing due to the time left until we reach 100% content.

I would just appreciate a statement of any kind by GGG. Just communicate with your community and don't let them fight with each other.