D3 vs Poe: Which has worse itemization?

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gr00grams wrote:

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Robert_Paulson wrote:

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gr00grams wrote:

Aside it's CI usage, Shav's is really the only high-end usable (unique) ES torso piece in the game.

What? If you use Shav's with CI you fail pretty bloody hard.

You misunderstood. Sorry.

It's CI usage = you get free CI with it, thus enabling low life, all that jazz.

Point stands.

No you don't.
You still take full chaos damage, it just doesn't bypass ES.

That hole you're digging, if you're trying to dig your way out, dig up.

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Robert_Paulson wrote:

No you don't.
You still take full chaos damage, it just doesn't bypass ES.

That hole you're digging, if you're trying to dig your way out, dig up.

Okay, kiddo, ya got me keep friggin' pointing out little tidbits of useless drivel to counter what?

Tell me the name of another high ES unique in the game.

Like really, what the hell are you trying to point out here? I said Shavs is pretty much the only usable high-tier unique ES chest-piece.

That was my point.

Whatever the hell semantics you want to go on about otherwise, are irrelevant to this point.
Like serious, what are you trying to tell me? God damn useless fucking banter like this annoys me. What the fuck is your point? Tell me another 400+ pure ES unique that is usable like Shav's. If you say Infernal Mantle may lighting strike you down.

EDIT* I apologize for my vulgarity. I got pretty hot-headed here.

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Tell me another 400+ pure ES unique that is usable like Shav's. If you say Infernal Mantle may lighting strike you down!

Well infernal mantel is usable and pretty strong? It's just more niche than Shavs and has a hefty downside(less auras, bad in half regen).

Spidersilk robe is also ok.

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kasub wrote:

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Tell me another 400+ pure ES unique that is usable like Shav's. If you say Infernal Mantle may lighting strike you down!

Well infernal mantel is usable and pretty strong? It's just more niche than Shavs and has a hefty downside(less auras, bad in half regen).

Spidersilk robe is also ok.

Infernal Mantle could be so good, but it's penalty is too severe;

It prevents you using auras on mana, because +100% spell damage on low mana will get you killed.

I can't even give this item away.
Aside that fact, yes it's quite a nice piece really, but it's penalty is too strong.

You'd have to intentionally gimp yourself with some blood magic, or the like to use it, and frankly it's bonuses are not good enough to warrant that.

Itemization is fine, the problem is RNG and orb drop rates. I think the issue is that in PoE you don't really find items to improve your character, you find items to fulfill requirements for survival (+life, +resists, etc). This isn't all that bad by itself but combined with the fact that you need to also get colors, sockets and links right, it can quickly feel very cruel indeed.

Also, PoE unique items in general are the best in ARPG history. No competition. They got that one right, even though the drop rates are shit.

AH 3

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waggypants wrote:

AH 3 /thread

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gr00grams wrote:

Okay, kiddo, ya got me keep friggin' pointing out little tidbits of useless drivel to counter what?

Tell me the name of another high ES unique in the game.

Like really, what the hell are you trying to point out here? I said Shavs is pretty much the only usable high-tier unique ES chest-piece.

That was my point.

Whatever the hell semantics you want to go on about otherwise, are irrelevant to this point.
Like serious, what are you trying to tell me? God damn useless fucking banter like this annoys me. What the fuck is your point? Tell me another 400+ pure ES unique that is usable like Shav's. If you say Infernal Mantle may lighting strike you down.

EDIT* I apologize for my vulgarity. I got pretty hot-headed here.

Fundamental misunderstandings of how things work, when your argument is based on that thing, is not "little tidbits of useless drivel", or "semantics".

You want items of the same tier as Shav's, but you have no idea of what tier that is.

If you don't understand the power level of these items, how can you make any argument regarding them? You can't with any credibility.

Itemization is more about customizable choices. In d3 you want the same stuff on every item. Stack the same things. Main stat, life, resist all, crit attack speed, etc. Boring itemization. You don't have any choice in gear.

PoE you can choose what kind of gear you want. Armor? evasion? Focus in block? Block and energy shield? Obviously you want resists, but do you care about mana leech or mana regen? Do you go life or +energy shield? Do you get uniques to enable your build to do something you couldn't do without them? Do you use a unique that gives amazing resistances for that slot, but is pretty inferior at everything else? Do you use a shield that has 24% implicit resist and rolled with extra resist or go for one with resist all and a 30% block rate, or rather would you like to get the 15% spell damage mod, or reflect damage mod on it?

That's itemization choices, which PoE excels in. Even my summoner has uniques on her that are inferior "budget-wise" to her level, but she gets more benefit out of them because she's focuses on summons.

In d3 you get the exact same thing for every character - and everyone cares about the exact same stats (main stat + blah)

Rarity of gear or capability to upgrade? That's not necessarily itemization. When you've got top tier gear in any game it it'll obviously be hard to find something that's even greater. True in any Diablo clone. There's a top tier and it's hard to get by design. Fortunately, PoEs currency allows you to roll more chances if you want to do self found instead of trading - not that that's going to make the top tier items any less improbable to get.

It seems like people fail to understand that itemization =/= crappy drop rates.

Itemization is the union of these imo:

1) drop rates
2) item variety
3) affix variety
4) affix synergy with builds
5) build-enabling items
6) variety affixes and item types that builds needs in order to work
7) crafting and recipe capability
8) item/currency sink

D3 failed extremely hard in point 6. Since on ALL. YOUR. DAMN. ITEMS, you need these 5 stats:

1) main stat (str, dex, int)
2) vitality or life %
3) critical chance
4) critical damage
5) attack speed.

PERIOD. Nothing else is usefull, armor is totally secondary too.

I'd say that D3 is failing in points 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 and 8. PoE fails only on point 1, all the others are met since we have:

1) """bad""" drop rates (imo, the're perfect)

2) PoE has a vast item variety; and they can be usefull in all their rarity, from whites to uniques. Since all items might be sellable for currenct (chrom, jewelers ecc) or can be 5 or 6 linked (always usefull). Also in this point i have to mention the possibility to build around one of the 3 defense kinds: evasion, armor or ES (or hybrids).

3) A good variety of affixes, specially on jewelery

4) affixes that sinergizes well with only certain build, for example FB build seek for flat phys dmg roll, crit build for crit multiplier, ele build for flat elemental damage and spellcasters for cast speed and spell damage, in D3, as said above, you care only about 5 affixes, no matter what your build is

5) PoE has many build enabling items, like shavronne, FB, Crown of eyes, Voltaxic ecc. D3 iirc has very few build enabling items.

6) this can be engulfed in point 4 tbh. Certain build in PoE just needs certain affixes in order to work correctly. But here i can add that certain build needs certain kind of defences in order to work. A low life shav will always get ES items (and ES affixes). A pure evasion acro build will ideally seek for pure evasion and some armor/evasion gear

7) crafting might be sloppy or unrewarding IF you're aiming for perfection (crafting 6l or uber armor).

8) PoE has a various item and currency sink. Items sink is represented by recipes, currency sink is rapresented with crafting, from chromatics to exalted orbs.

TL:DR: PoE has a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better itemization than D3

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sammuelsedai wrote:

I see complaints about D3 itemization all the time on the D3 forums: Can't find good upgrades from drops and prices for good gear on the AH are sky high because of flippers.

Poe was suppose to fix all of that, but instead I see the same complaints on the POE forums

What do drop rates have to do with itemization ?

Itemization in D3 sucks so bad : no main stat ? trash. Weapon has no socket ? trash. No crits on gloves / bracers / rings / amulets/ helmet ? trash. 90% of people are using the same unique belt, the same set pants, the same unique 2 hander axe if they are playing 2H or the same unique 1 hander mace if they are playing with two 1 handers. And I could keep going on...