Amount of grinding in PoE, compared to Diablo 2

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Geertwilbert wrote:

Obviously, this game got a lot of it's inspiration from Diablo 2, which is simply the pinnacle of aRpg online gaming for most people.

Then why is it that in PoE, everything is a HUGE grind to get to the endgame? I really don't get it. Why does it take dozens and dozens of Ledge runs, Piety runs, Fellshrine runs, to get to endgame? How is this beneficial to anyone's game enjoyment? If you ask me, it's boring as hell.

In D2 you could get to lvl 80 in a about a day if you rushed everything. This was a high enough lvl to do all the endgame content. After that, it just was about efficiency and aim for perfection of your character only. And if D2 proved one thing, it's that that's enough! It was actually a lot of fun, in a game where a lot of different character builds are possible, which PoE also is. Who ever played Diablo 2 and thought: "Hmmm... I really wish there was more grinding to 80. This grind is over way too fast."

Let me tell you, 0 people, in the whole world. Efficiency and perfection was enough to aim for. And nobody got bored, if you did, you just tried a new character build. That's how I remember D2, and it was awesome fun.

Who the hell at GGG thought it was a good idea to add a whole lot of Korean style grinding to that mix? GGG claims it want to recreate the feel of games like D2 gave you in the past. But then why do they completely re-arrange something that was close to perfect, and think they know it better? I really don't know how you can come to the conclusion that more brainless grinding is a good thing for your game.

They basically took the Mona Lisa and painted a huge moustache on it.

No.. just NO

Maybe you where not familiar with D2 endgame, which was divided in 2 parts:

PvE endgame: stupidly easy to achieve, kill Baal + Baal runs + smiter or summoner for UT
PvP endgame: EXTREMELY hard to arrive.

Honestly. i've never seen Baal runs and UT runs as the endgame of D2. For me the endgame, where you HAD to have the very best gear, was PvP.

I'm pretty sure that if you log in now in D2 and try making a competitive hammerdin for PvP, it will take you 2-3 months, if you're lucky.

In POE, after 2 months i already can run 75 maps in Nemesis (sort of endgame, still didnt drop any 76+) with my main and i already have other 2 characters ready for 70 maps. And i play a very little, considering i also race a lot when i can

Thank god bots and dupes if you could make a decent PvP character in D2. Else there is no way you could make one in 1 month.

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Mahesys wrote:

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Geertwilbert wrote:

Obviously, this game got a lot of it's inspiration from Diablo 2, which is simply the pinnacle of aRpg online gaming for most people.

Then why is it that in PoE, everything is a HUGE grind to get to the endgame? I really don't get it. Why does it take dozens and dozens of Ledge runs, Piety runs, Fellshrine runs, to get to endgame? How is this beneficial to anyone's game enjoyment? If you ask me, it's boring as hell.

In D2 you could get to lvl 80 in a about a day if you rushed everything. This was a high enough lvl to do all the endgame content. After that, it just was about efficiency and aim for perfection of your character only. And if D2 proved one thing, it's that that's enough! It was actually a lot of fun, in a game where a lot of different character builds are possible, which PoE also is. Who ever played Diablo 2 and thought: "Hmmm... I really wish there was more grinding to 80. This grind is over way too fast."

Let me tell you, 0 people, in the whole world. Efficiency and perfection was enough to aim for. And nobody got bored, if you did, you just tried a new character build. That's how I remember D2, and it was awesome fun.

Who the hell at GGG thought it was a good idea to add a whole lot of Korean style grinding to that mix? GGG claims it want to recreate the feel of games like D2 gave you in the past. But then why do they completely re-arrange something that was close to perfect, and think they know it better? I really don't know how you can come to the conclusion that more brainless grinding is a good thing for your game.

They basically took the Mona Lisa and painted a huge moustache on it.

No.. just NO

Maybe you where not familiar with D2 endgame, which was divided in 2 parts:

PvE endgame: stupidly easy to achieve, kill Baal + Baal runs + smiter or summoner for UT
PvP endgame: EXTREMELY hard to arrive.

Honestly. i've never seen Baal runs and UT runs as the endgame of D2. For me the endgame, where you HAD to have the very best gear, was PvP.

I'm pretty sure that if you log in now in D2 and try making a competitive hammerdin for PvP, it will take you 2-3 months, if you're lucky.

In POE, after 2 months i already can run 75 maps in Nemesis (sort of endgame, still didnt drop any 76+) with my main and i already have other 2 characters ready for 70 maps. And i play a very little, considering i also race a lot when i can

Thank god bots and dupes if you could make a decent PvP character in D2. Else there is no way you could make one in 1 month.

Which would be fine in POE. Make pve endgame "stupidly easy" and pvp endgame extremely hard to get into.
I don't pvp anyway, so I couldn't care less if it takes 5 hours or 5 decades to get into.
In fact, most of the people I played with didn't like pvp.

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Hyskoa wrote:

Which would be fine in POE. Make pve endgame "stupidly easy" and pvp endgame extremely hard to get into.
I don't pvp anyway, so I couldn't care less if it takes 5 hours or 5 decades to get into.
In fact, most of the people I played with didn't like pvp.

Sorry, but if i want to play a stupid easy game i would play D3 or CoD (or any new FPS game). I want to play a challenging game like PoE. I'm sick of these new-gen ultra easy braindead games.

I don't understand what's so bad about having both an hard PvE and PvP.

POE Grinding: Ledge / Fellshrine / Docks / Bosses / Maps.

D2 Grinding: Tristan / cows / sanctuary / Baal.

Sorry i don't see the difference.



Ofc in d2 we had more bosses farming going on. Like meph, pindle, shenk etc etc etc etc

But thats because there was no map system like in POE.

D2 was basically Enter cows, sit in TP get xp. Then they fixed XP distance. Enter TP walk around cows with the player that kills. Then they patched cows XP. So now its basically run Baal with bots. Then they added UBERS. People glitched Ubers for mass xp fast. Then they patched it. Back to baal runs. ERMERGERDDDDDD

POE: Farm marveil or Piety or Dom.

D2: Farm meph or Baal or Pindle or Shenk or Andy etc etc

SAME SHIT DIFFERENT GAME DAWGGGGGGGGG

Except POE has maps for end game and D2 had a more fun PVP.

Only Read OP.

I personally find PoE good Balanced in Leveling Terms.
When you can rush to quick to 80 for example, then it make low level items/uniques more useless. To fix that, GGG need then to remake many low lvl Stuff.

Its not a Race, its a Journey to Max Level, enjoy it more!

I had 3 lvl 99 characters in D2 and that was when Cow experience was good. What was really fun there is making a toon that could demolish content all by itself in a players 8. You could see 8 players head off in 8 different directions, all trying to kill more packs of hell bovines than the next player. Sort of a race of quantity, fun times.

My favourite character was a meteor sorc, insta tele around, a couple of statics and boom BOOM! entire packs drop at the snap of a finger. PoE hasn't recreated that experience, at least nothing that I'm aware of. Like where do you see a party in PoE all take off in different directions in order to clear an entire map?

From what I can tell, looking at streamers and youtube, that can't be done in PoE even after grinding to high levels?

PoE grinding is very different from D2 in more than one way. I don't see myself getting one character to max level before the start of the next season.

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Zalm wrote:

I like how you seem to know hw I play and how much I have played. I have more than one build, more than one character. I have made well over 20 different builds to at least level 50 to test viablity, but you didnt need to know that. The fact of the matter is, if godly items were dropped more often, no matter how much more often, they would be less valuable and thus not as godly.

Please dont assume that I dont challenge myself, please dont assume I only play one build, please dont assume I only grind for low end currency.

Yes I main one build, but its not my only build. Yes I use this build often because its easy, but I also use very difficult builds simply to test the bounds of my gearing a building capabilities. Yes I grind for low end currency, but I do so with high IIR and IIQ and a very quick pace on high end maps in order to try for that godly gear.

Simply because I play differently than you does not mean its a waste of time. You play 20 maps, pass most of the yellows and only ID and end up vendoring a few, that is more of a waste than not picking them up and at least getting something for your work put into the map.

Yeah, I may run 10,000 miles and earn my set, but at least I'm taking all those peices I get every few miles. You run 10,000 miles and expect during the trip to find a whole set of legos in a trash pile along the way. You only get yours by luck, I get mine with patience and diligence. Mine is guaranteed, yours isnt.

Also, this is a game, not a job, we play different for the same goal. I have 3 complete builds I enjoy daily that I have slowly earned. You seem to want more instant gratification and dont seem to want to take as much time to earn it.

Lets try this one. I'd rather get a 1 dollar paycheck and get lucky with a 500 surprise bonus than play like you, where you literally toss out every check you get if it isnt a 10k dollar lottery jackpot you may never get anyways.

You have 3 characters over lvl 50 currently. I don't know how many you have deleted, or why considering you are nowhere near max character slots.

An item's drop frequency has nothing to do with it's godliness. If Death Sword of Insta-kill dropped as often as health potions, it would still be the godliest item in the game.

I never said you only played a single build. In fact, I said quite the opposite. I stated that the end game is less relevant to you because you are content to simply roll 500 characters.

Once again, you say you are using high IIR/IIQ to grind high end maps quickly yet you've found only a single "good" item in a year of playing. What are you not seeing that is wrong with this picture?

Why would I skip anything? I never said that. I pick up all rares and ID to sell. You are making assumptions now.

Once again, you are using the "earned" word when you've actually just thrown loads of time at your characters. No skill, no thinking. A botting program can do your job.

Finally, it just proves my point that you'd be willing to take the $1/hr job. You are content with anything that is put into the game as long as there is content to experience. Therefor, any changes to benefit players like myself would have no impact on your play experience. Thanks for the chat.

I think one of the largest points in the PoE vs. D2 debate that is being missed is the fact that you could relatively easily, within the confines of the game, "max" a character in Diablo 2. That same task in PoE is nearly impossible.

Actually, dropping godly gear more often would infact deflate their value and make them less godly. I'm going into the minute details of one godly over another, we all saw what happened to BiS gear in D3.

And I actually have to delete chars all the time since I am constantly making, testing and trying new builds. Constantly testing the bounds of what the game holds for me, I have never deleted a char that wasnt at least level 40 and in cruel unless the build was absurdly poorly made.

And no, I dont see an issue with never finding end game godly gear after a year of playing. The fact that you do means you need to go play Diablo 3, where godly gear is alot more common and easier to find, since thats your play style.

As I have said before, I do challenge myself all the time, and the limits of the game. I do end game maps all the time, just at a different pace than you. I do it slowly but I still do it easily. I also have challenging map characters I like to do alot as well. Again, dont assume every character I have is less than 50. When I say I have three over 50, that means I have three around level 65, and just starting maps. And I have deleted many characters before. Many.

Yes, I did jump to conclusions thinking you played like every other power gamer who wants end game gear more commonly, and that was my mistake. I just see the record, and people who call for more godly drops usually skip 90% of everything, and drop the 10% they do find if its not godly enough to sell for tons of currency.

And honestly, you probably do something similar to me, where you simply grind maps looking for loot. Its repetitive, easy, and a bot could do what you do as well. Technically, the way the game is made, a simple bot could do what any of us do. Thats not the point here. Simply because I take my time and enjoy the game differently than you doesnt make my method worse than yours.

Again, yes I would rather take the 1$ an hour job than wait for a lottery to come my way, which may never happen.

Its not impossible to max a character, its been done many times over. It probably takes the same amount of grinding in D2 as it does PoE, the grinding is just different.

what is it with your uneducated d3 bashing of godly items ?
you cant loot a perfect trifecta with mainstat vit allres in d3 in a week a month or even a year.
you could back then however trade the way up there and sell scraps then after youve filled the gap in your virtual wallet you could buy almost perfect trifecta gloves / rings if the seller didnt have some absurd price.

plus most "godly" items in d3 werent even in the AH or RMAH they were in d2jsp and other site for botters and forumgoldwarriors.

pls do not imply that godly loot in d3 was easy to come by i played that game from release till its imminent death and i didnt have one godly item to show for it , almost godly ? yes indeed - godly ? not one.

edit: removed quoting , back to topic.

if grinding piety dominus is more rewarding then grinding higher lvl maps then the game is broken to the core and needs some time in the happy patchy update laboratory.

i didnt find araku tiki dingdongs gloves and pokemon gold amulet in d3 from azmodan , champions rares in a3.
i found loot according to the ilvl of mobs stricly just the loot of that ilvl.
i didn´t loot cain setpieces from act4 nor did i loot a lvl5 unique from ponies.
why ? because that shit is unnacceptable but somehow in PoE its a-okay and ensures longevity if 20 unique drops out of 25 are very lowlvl and vendorfood.