Amount of grinding in PoE, compared to Diablo 2

And what exactly is this "end game" you speak of in D2?

Baal runs? Uber Trist runs? Whatever other trivial, easy crap you can think of?

Here's the thing: D2 had no engaging "end game" to even base this argument on. If you want to do endless Piety runs or whatever, you're free to do so with very little effort. But don't act like mapping is the same thing as following a baal bot for 6 hours straight.

ffs


this game IS NOT diablo 2...regardless of how many people want to think its the successor to D2, its not...get over it!


if you want to QQ about the successor to d2, then you should be on the blizzard forums bitching about d3 (if you havent already)

this is an ENTIRELY different game and franchise...

so please, stop trying to force it to look and behave like d2 when it very well shouldnt

Getting there faster being better is a matter of opinion. I dont want it to be faster. If this game moves faster, then there is less time playing and enjoying it, and if I finish it sooner, then I play it less, which makes the game bad.

I appreciate the slower move speed than D2 running and enigma ports. I enjoy the fact that its more effective to kill everything on maps than rush to the boss, and kill it. I like the fact that it takes you a couple of weeks to get to end game, especially since end game is the same for every single game on the market. The exact same stuff over and over again.

Getting to maps in a day just means you notice even sooner that end game is a bit lacking, as it is in every single arpg on the market. I dont mind, since I take my time and build 200 builds along the way. But once I get to max level, I only use that max level char to help others or clear content and farm loot/wealth for other builds. Once I get to 'end game' in an arpg, I move on to another char that ISNT end game, since end game is so repetitive.

"

Zalm wrote:

Even then, It took me a week to make my leap slam mara to 67 to use a kongors and that is effectively my end game. A week. Thats about how long it took me to grind to 80 in D2.

Even in PoE, it takes me about 3 weeks to hit 80 with any build....most build, summoners and assistants are always slower. Its not that long, and if it takes you longer than 3 weeks to a month to hit 80, you might consider doing some more min maxing on passives, gear and skills.

This is three weeks of 3 hours a day on average btw. And I would consider 70 to be end game here in PoE, since most end game gear maxes around 70 anyway. That cuts your time down considerably.

20 days x 3 hours = 60 hours. So you're saying: "It's only 60 hours, so not that much".

First of all 60 hours is insane for a lot of people. 20 hours for one character is already a lot for a lot of people.

But besides that, even if we just assume that 20 or even 60 hours isn't much in general, how is that a good argument for having a huge grind? Where is the actual argument for why this grind should be there in the first place? Just because you don't experience it as a huge waste of time, doesn't mean it adds anything positive to this game that couldn't be missed.

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eebertay wrote:

ffs


this game IS NOT diablo 2...regardless of how many people want to think its the successor to D2, its not...get over it!

This game tries to be a game in the spirit of D2, let's not twist around the obvious.

It's like saying Starbound and Terraria are two completely different games and have nothing to do with each other. I mean, sure it's all a matter of perception, but come on...

"

JahIthBer89 wrote:

And what exactly is this "end game" you speak of in D2?

Baal runs? Uber Trist runs? Whatever other trivial, easy crap you can think of?

Here's the thing: D2 had no engaging "end game" to even base this argument on. If you want to do endless Piety runs or whatever, you're free to do so with very little effort. But don't act like mapping is the same thing as following a baal bot for 6 hours straight.

Endgame in D2 was PvP.

And quit acting like PoE is the holy grail of difficulty. Endlessly grind until you get a lucky high tier drop (if at all) then smash the shit out of maps. PoE isn't any different.

If this game actually wanted to be difficult, it would be challenging to even the highest geared characters and gear would be made to drop evenly across the board. An items rarity should, in no way, also be reflected in it's power. It leads to broken games.

At least in D2, ALL build options were open regardless of your wealth. You get to experience the entirety of character creation. For the tidbits of gear that you did need, you could reliably grind for it. PoE doesn't guarantee drops. Even the currency is completely RNG based. The whole game is a crapshoot. Heck, I'm surprised there isn't a "how long will I need to spend flipping in trade" calculator for builds.

Even with "no endgame" as you claim, D2 became the poster child for ARPGs. They did something right.

I've never been able to understand why someone complains about goals they set for themselves. Amazing. Play the game through normal and quit... if that's all you want to. Try to finish cruel... maybe.

Set your own damn goals.

If you set goals you're not happy with, it's your own fault.

The developers at GGG have a plan where they try to kill us. They try to keep us from beating their game. It's like a tower defense game for them. They have to give us the idea that we can win, or we wont play. But they do their best to keep us from doing it and challenge us to try. That's what they mean by "hardcore gaming". If you don't like it, go play D3. There you will be able to achieve what ever goal you might set for yourself. Everyone gets a trophy.

"

Geertwilbert wrote:

"

Zalm wrote:

Even then, It took me a week to make my leap slam mara to 67 to use a kongors and that is effectively my end game. A week. Thats about how long it took me to grind to 80 in D2.

Even in PoE, it takes me about 3 weeks to hit 80 with any build....most build, summoners and assistants are always slower. Its not that long, and if it takes you longer than 3 weeks to a month to hit 80, you might consider doing some more min maxing on passives, gear and skills.

This is three weeks of 3 hours a day on average btw. And I would consider 70 to be end game here in PoE, since most end game gear maxes around 70 anyway. That cuts your time down considerably.

20 days x 3 hours = 60 hours. So you're saying: "It's only 60 hours, so not that much".

First of all 60 hours is insane for a lot of people. 20 hours for one character is already a lot for a lot of people.

But besides that, even if we just assume that 20 or even 60 hours isn't much in general, how is that a good argument for having a huge grind? Where is the actual argument for why this grind should be there in the first place? Just because you don't experience it as a huge waste of time, doesn't mean it adds anything positive to this game that couldn't be missed.

Honestly, if your playing an arpg, your not playing a game with a variety of end game mechanics at its helm. The market on ARPGs is a bit lacking in the end game sections, since the over all gameplay of an arpg is difficult to make is end game content oriented. This would require new monsters with new mechanics and new maps new bosses to be released on a constant pace, similar to standard MMOs, like WoW, Tera, and Rift does.

This game for an arpg, does wonders. Every two weeks, we get new unique equipment, new skills and new MTXs. We get bit content patches all the time, and tons of little fixes along the way. Now, this in mind, makes the game above and beyond nearly any aprg on the market.

Its to much work to make new bosses and new areas and new mobs alot to make the end game more varied, so they stick to the easier but still high quailty stuff, like uniques, skills and the like. And honestly, with some people dumping well into 1k hours, 60 hours is nothing.

"

Shagsbeard wrote:

I've never been able to understand why someone complains about goals they set for themselves. Amazing. Play the game through normal and quit... if that's all you want to. Try to finish cruel... maybe.

Set your own damn goals.

If you set goals you're not happy with, it's your own fault.

Why are you telling others how they should experience their game? I'm never setting any goals at all in games, and why should I? I just play, try to have fun, and see what happens.

In PoE, I simply see a few game design choices severely hindering my fun, while I do see the potential through these issues and I see there is fun to be had, and more should these issues be fixed.

So I give feedback, and hope it can maybe contribute a little, and I'm interested if other people experience the same or see it completely different.

So your "it's your own fault if you are bothered with something" remark is impetuous and a bit weird. It could kill any discussion, if anyone would take it seriously. But that's not the way it works.

I get it... you're one of those guys who likes to present an opinion and then get in arguments with people who post contrary to them. We see a lot of you. Have a nice day.