Amount of grinding in PoE, compared to Diablo 2

excessive grinding helps increase the game's lifespan. players who stopped playing out of boredom dont generally support the game through mtx.

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Nephalim wrote:

excessive grinding helps increase the game's lifespan. players who stopped playing out of boredom dont generally support the game through mtx.

This exactly. 100% this. If you want to speed up the game, its likely that kind of person doesnt stick around long anyway. I've been here a year, giving GGG my money as often as possible. I'll be here for years longer likely doing the same. This has officially replaced y D2 gaming.

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Nephalim wrote:

excessive grinding helps increase the game's lifespan. players who stopped playing out of boredom dont generally support the game through mtx.

Ehh so wouldn't it be a good idea to not have boring grinds then if you want to maximize mtx revenue?

Or are you saying that players who find grinding boring and quit because of that, wouldn't have spent any money anyway?

Can read your post in different ways...

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Geertwilbert wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

excessive grinding helps increase the game's lifespan. players who stopped playing out of boredom dont generally support the game through mtx.

Ehh so wouldn't it be a good idea to not have boring grinds then if you want to maximize mtx revenue?

Or are you saying that players who find grinding boring and quit because of that, wouldn't have spent any money anyway?

Can read your post in different ways...

the road to 100 and the road to bis gear is impossibly long because if it was short, many players would reach it and stop playing.

arpgs at the core will be a grind. i agree there should be some content other than map runs but all things in good time.

when everyone is godly, no one is godly. the very reason people aspire to get amazing gear is that there are people with much worse gear. when you steadily cater to demands of the masses all you do is raise the bar on what is godly and what is trash.

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Geertwilbert wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

excessive grinding helps increase the game's lifespan. players who stopped playing out of boredom dont generally support the game through mtx.

Ehh so wouldn't it be a good idea to not have boring grinds then if you want to maximize mtx revenue?

Or are you saying that players who find grinding boring and quit because of that, wouldn't have spent any money anyway?

Can read your post in different ways...

The problem is that in D2 players were grinding by doing boss runs over and over again, in PoE players are grinding by farming specific zones, doing boss runs or running maps.

You are the person who sees a qualitative difference in favor of D2 here, you are the on saying "this type of grinding is vastly superior to this other type of grinding".

People keep telling you that ultimately it's all just grinding, you are just too biased to see it. You want to see a qualitative difference where there simply is no qualitative difference.

Wether I do baal runs for 10 hours or piety for 10 hours really makes no difference. And the people who don't want to farm for 10 hours a day don't necessarily have a problem with PoE but the entire ARPG genre itself.

And I suspect the only reason you don't see this is nostalgia. You saw a purpose in grinding back when you were younger and played D2, but you don't see a purpose in doing the same thing in PoE now that you are older. Same thing is true for me, except that I don't have to delude myself into thinking that this is because "D2 >PoE *jerks off*", but rather grinding in and of itself becoming less and less appealing to me because I've done it too much in the past.

But for those who want to grind poe is a fantastic game, so let them be happy and don't try and change the game just because you don't enjoy that aspect of it. PoE is a time sink, if you don't have that time, just think smaller, set your own goals, just focus on other things that have nothing to do with finding the best items.

Personally I don't enjoy endgame grinding, so I only do races and occasionally level a new character when I feel like it. I don't enjoy grinding but I also understand that it's an integral part of the game that very many people enjoy, so I just don't complain about it and I suggest you, my friend, do the same.

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Nephalim wrote:

when everyone is godly, no one is godly. the very reason people aspire to get amazing gear is that there are people with much worse gear. when you steadily cater to demands of the masses all you do is raise the bar on what is godly and what is trash.

In a vacuum yes, and then it would be a good idea to keep the standard where it is now. But here you run into the problem of playability of the game, whether or not you can actually progress without getting completely stuck for long times. If you don't trade much, or don't make a fotm build, this can happen a lot in PoE, or at least things becoming quite a drag.

While I do agree that it's important for a game's lifespan that godlyness stays godly and not easily achieved, I don't see how a long grind to endgame where these godly items could potentially drop, is essential to achieve this.

That was proven by D2. Being geared and leveled enough to at least clear all the content solo was not that hard. But making your character actually godly was a whole other story, and still hard to achieve. So you can perfectly have the best of both worlds.

Now if you look at D3 at release, it tried to do exactly what PoE now does. They artificially extended the game's lifespan with extremely hard difficulty (inferno), and extremely low drop rates, making progress at endgame a huge huge grind. It achieved exactly the opposite of what it was trying to achieve, lots of people just got bored fast when they arrived at inferno, and quit playing the game altogether. The pace just became too low at that point, and the time invested vs. feeling of accomplishment (aka grind) too high.

Yep, this game is a HUGE grind early game made WORSE by the lack of balancing between skills in the early game. You have garbage builds like summoners that do NOTHING until you put 20 hours into your character. You actually have to use a "leveling build" before you can unveil your REAL build, this is BAD design. Everyone just runs ST or facebreaker and they "GRIND", it's starting to feel like an mmorpg grind.

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Zalm wrote:

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Nephalim wrote:

excessive grinding helps increase the game's lifespan. players who stopped playing out of boredom dont generally support the game through mtx.

This exactly. 100% this. If you want to speed up the game, its likely that kind of person doesnt stick around long anyway. I've been here a year, giving GGG my money as often as possible. I'll be here for years longer likely doing the same. This has officially replaced y D2 gaming.

If this next char of mine doesn't work out, I'm done, and I've spent around 300 bucks on this game.

The "skinner box" GGG has set up for me isn't paying off. I'm not getting fed often enough to care about hitting the button any more.

Furthermore, since I a min-maxer, all my currency is being dumped into furthering a single char. It's the only character I plan on playing, so it gets all my MTX. I literally cannot shove any more MTX onto it. I have a shit-ton of disposable income. In fact, I could match Charan's contributions out of pocket right now, but I don't feel it's a worthy investment.

Simply put, the game isn't designed for people like me. I want to progress by playing the game, not trading. Unfortunately, it doesn't cater to that mentality. Shame.

The thing is, the grind isnt all that long. Its a week at most, and some people have reported 1-2 days to get there.

Honestly, a week isnt even that long for a grind to hit end game, much less 3 days. If your issue is the grind, as it was said before, maybe this game genre isnt for you. ARPGs are all about the grind, and if you dont like the grind, then we cant help you.

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Zalm wrote:

The thing is, the grind isnt all that long. Its a week at most, and some people have reported 1-2 days to get there.

Honestly, a week isnt even that long for a grind to hit end game, much less 3 days. If your issue is the grind, as it was said before, maybe this game genre isnt for you. ARPGs are all about the grind, and if you dont like the grind, then we cant help you.

Dude, getting to end game is easy. I don't give a rhoa's ass about that. I care when I play the endgame for 20x as long as it took getting there and not a damn thing of any value drops.