post-OB leagues, currency values

I agree mostly with MrDDT here. Sadly though, from the looks of things it seems like GGG simply wants to keep stash tabs as the easiest way to make currencies simply because it incentive's people to give real money to the devs. And in my experiences games with cash shops like this typically gain the ire of the players and slowly die, looking at you Age-of-Conan(aoc died for a number of reasons including the p2w shop)

Give us some cool costumes, or 'unusual'(tf2 reference) hats/pants. and get rid of the pay-2-win tabs.

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RaistlinM wrote:

I agree mostly with MrDDT here. Sadly though, from the looks of things it seems like GGG simply wants to keep stash tabs as the easiest way to make currencies simply because it incentive's people to give real money to the devs. And in my experiences games with cash shops like this typically gain the ire of the players and slowly die, looking at you Age-of-Conan(aoc died for a number of reasons including the p2w shop)

Give us some cool costumes, or 'unusual'(tf2 reference) hats/pants. and get rid of the pay-2-win tabs.

Yeah my idea is mostly to keep out Pay2Win out of it, which GGG believes shouldnt be in the game (or wont be).

The only thing GGG needs to do is eliminate 3rd party programs like PoE helper.

That way, if a player takes effort to name match, he should be rewarded for it.

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Tomorrow wrote:

The only thing GGG needs to do is eliminate 3rd party programs like PoE helper.

That way, if a player takes effort to name match, he should be rewarded for it.

How are they going to take 3rd party out of it?

Nothing to stop me from making a program to match without using the webpage. Track my stuff in game. Its harder but doable and untraceable and unstoppable.

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MrDDT wrote:

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Tomorrow wrote:

The only thing GGG needs to do is eliminate 3rd party programs like PoE helper.

That way, if a player takes effort to name match, he should be rewarded for it.

How are they going to take 3rd party out of it?

Nothing to stop me from making a program to match without using the webpage. Track my stuff in game. Its harder but doable and untraceable and unstoppable.

As long as it doesnt automatically do it for you by simply clicking ok. You should be rewarded for sorting and track your items.

This is a hypothetical of mine from The Big Thread on alchemy orb/matching recipe, on Aug. 8th.

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pneuma wrote:

Let's pretend I'm a goldfarmer.

Right now I could set up a shop in the game. I will buy all your junk rares for an alteration orb each, thrice what the vendor was going to give you. Overnight I'll do the matches and convert them all to alchemy orbs, then resell those for alterations, getting ~4 alteration orbs in the process (nothing quite like 400% overnight). A metric fuckton of value (delicious pay2win-ness) can be earned here until the market recovers and drops alchemy orbs down to 1/10th their current value.

Does GGG want alchemy orbs to be worth that little? How does that change the balance of the game? Isn't a chaos orb just a scour + an alch (well, really just a scour)?

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the game economy is directly related to game balance and game experience.

Really this issue has more to do with abuse cases than it does for the average person, but that's pretty much always the case with these kinds of things.

Shockingly similar to DDT's hypothetical.

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Tomorrow wrote:

The only thing GGG needs to do is eliminate 3rd party programs like PoE helper.

This isn't going to happen, so I wouldn't bother thinking about it. It's not the correct fix anyway.

New players might sell their rares for an alteration, but anyone who knows the vendor recipe would never agree to that trade. I certainly wouldn't.

Also, my main concern is that I've sort of discovered... well an obvious trick. Farming low level zones does not reduce the amount of rare items you get. It's pretty easy to farm low level zones at level 60 with +300 quality/rarity gear and get tons of rares. Low level rares turn into alchemies just as easy as high level rares, so... and it's not like they can change this (how else am I supposed to farm for level 28 pvp gear?)

I do agree the recipe is problematic. I think alch base drop rate should improve but the recipe for alch orbs should just be dropped. Regal matching... might be okay, but then again, it should eventually suffer the same issue.

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anubite wrote:

New players might sell their rares for an alteration, but anyone who knows the vendor recipe would never agree to that trade. I certainly wouldn't.

On principle, you'd vendor your rares for 8 shards instead of his whole alter? I did for a long time. Thing is he's paying you 2.5x more than the vendor would.

You'll cave eventually. He turns a 5x profit off that trade, but you're turning a 2.5x profit at the same time. You can scream and shout on global chat (as I did for quite some time over this), call him a scammer, whatever - but it doesn't change the facts. If he has access to the recipe and you don't, he represents your only option for offloading rares at a better rate.

He controls alch supply, simple as that. On the flip side? You actually control alter supply, and on a more powerful note, you control fusing supply. Your only method of exerting control is to stockpile fusings and wait for people to realize just how much more valuable than alchs they should (and eventually will) be.

Trouble is, that realization will never happen until we're mass trading. IE, traditional values hold far too much sway right now because the community is tiny.

An hour ago some guy in HC global chat was spamming to buy 3 alchs, for about 20 minutes. Nobody piped up to sell him his alchs. If 8 sellers were available all at once, don't you think the exchange rate would be fairer? It'll happen. Alchs will be selling for 2 alters each, when we have 3,000 people actively trading on the forums, 50 of those actively trading up fusings.

There is one aspect I hadn't considered. If you're saying this hypothetical Gold Farmer is trading rares for alterations - I don't think this model is actually cheaply sustainable. Where is he getting this alteration supply from? It's certainly not infinite.

I can use more alterations in one sitting than I like to. I've used up four or five stacks on a single item. They're relatively easy to replenish, but you need tons of them. I don't think the exchange rate of 1 rare for 1 alt is sustainable in a mass market, because the demand for alterations is pretty high - you need a huge volume of them. Alchs have an implicitly much lower value on them and in an economy that's described, alterations will eventually win out I think.

If we had a vendor recipe that directly converted 2 alteration into 1 alchemy, I'm not actually sure we would use it as much as we might first think. We have much better control with an alteration + regal combination, especially on very rare base items (like level 70 whites). Sure, it would make alchemies very plentiful, but alchs just aren't that useful, no? Their biggest use is in speed runs, which shouldn't be a concern for the recipe or long term currency value.

You're talking about the same thing I am.

Rares are worth exactly 8 shards, on average.

The variable point is the value of an alchemy orb.

Farmer is paying alters for rares by selling alchs for alters to other players.

See now? Alchemy orbs have to come down in value, and by a LOT. It just won't happen in the current small market, because people are used to their price at ~8-10 alters/>1 fus.

The only reason it'd settle at 2 alter is if there are many more players who cannot name match than players who can. Limited supply of alchs and all that. If you follow Pneuma's logic to the bitter end, though, and assume unlimited supply? 5 alchs is worth exactly 4 alters. I just don't see that exchange rate ever happening. By function alone, an alch is more valuable than an alter, and supply will always be at least somewhat limited.