post-OB leagues, currency values

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an alch is more valuable than an alter

I don't necessarily agree.

With 5 alts I can reroll a blue 5 times, pretty good chance of getting something good. When I'm hunting for some godly item, like say I found an awesome 5L or 6L, I'm going to want all the alterations I can. One alt to one alch is probably pretty close... but so long as I have a supply of regals, alterations are way more valuable to me to hoard.

Alchemy Orbs are only valuable when you need temporary junk gear. If there were a direct recipe of 2 alts = 1 alch I think nobody would even bother with it after level 70 or so. Except to maybe gamble on a white every once in a while. But even then, this implies a large supply of scouring orbs somewhere.

I guess I would end up taking the gold farmer's deal. It actually seems like a good trade. What's this gold farmer even going to do with his gazillion alchs? Hope he can find some dope that has a Kaom's chest piece and is willing to part with it for 10000 alchs?

I think the better question to ask is - what if this farmer were buying 1 rare for 1 alch and has 50-100 stash tabs. Is 3 alts for 1 regal sustainable? Does that break the economy?

Really this seems like a perfect linear algebra problem. If somebody were to pay close attention to their alteration, alchemy, regal, exalted and divine usage per creation of some "badass rare", you could model an approximation of the economy using it and find "ideal" values.

It might be possible to mathematically examine the value of alchs by comparing them to something which is more stable/known, like exalteds/divines.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around linear algebra, but maybe this would work?

If 1 alch = 2 alt = 2/3 regal then

1 2 2/3
1/2 1 1/3
4/3 3/2 1

would be the 3x3 matrix for it

Then you throw in the current exchange rate of exalteds. Which is, I dunno, let's say 10 alt = 1 exalted, 5 alch = 1 exalted, 2 regal = 1 exalted (these are just random numbers)

1 2 2/3 1/5
1/2 1 1/3 1/10
4/3 3/2 1 1/2

I think you'd make a matrix like this? Then you'd reduce it? Dunno where I'm going with this now, but if the model is theorhetically sustainable, there should be a solution to the matrix. Maybe a better idea would be to only use the known regal comparison and find the alteration/alchemy values as x and y unknowns and see if those values make any logical sense considering how the current economy works.

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MrDDT wrote:

Is a major problem. The haves (the ones with say 200+ tabs) will start to flood the market with alchs. How? WTB ALL rares at 5 to 1 alch. Profit for them of 1.5 alchs per trade. However, if you require say 4 rares matches per alchs. You cut the # of alchs out there by a factor of 2. While your version keeps it at 2 rares = 1 alch. or double the amount of alchs on the market compared to mine.

You wont be able to mass buy from a player, if the player have 100 rares to sell, hes probably doing name match himself. Yes, you can buy lesser amount of rares from someone with limited stash pages, but you basically have to dedicate yourself to sit in town and trade. If someone want to play PoE like that, Im not sure PoE is the right game for him.

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This isn't going to happen, so I wouldn't bother thinking about it. It's not the correct fix anyway.

Id like the hear why it isnt going to happen. All 3rd party program should go away.

Stash pages is not P2W.
Stash pages with PoE helper is P2W. Whats the difference between botting and use PoE helper to name match? None.

It takes time and effort to name match by yourself, and you should be rewarded.

Alchs actually have a very powerful trick up their sleeves. You know how people chance glorious plates and gold rings?

You farm whites. Tons of em. Epsis amazing chest armour was made not with crafting, but by picking up white zodiacs and alching them. over and over again til it rolled godly. Same can be said for weapons, gloves, rings, ammys, boots, amd even helms.

Any item that has tons of mods, many of which are needed together to make the item good is not worth crafting. This is where alchs come in.

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Tomorrow wrote:

Id like the hear why it isnt going to happen. All 3rd party program should go away.

Stash pages is not P2W.
Stash pages with PoE helper is P2W. Whats the difference between botting and use PoE helper to name match? None.

It takes time and effort to name match by yourself, and you should be rewarded.

Poe helper isn't botting. It simply provides you a more efficient interface with which to view your stash.
If you had a program that automatically withdrew matching sets from your stash and sold them to the vendor for alchs and/or regals, then that would be the same as botting.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Alchs actually have a very powerful trick up their sleeves. You know how people chance glorious plates and gold rings?

You farm whites. Tons of em. Epsis amazing chest armour was made not with crafting, but by picking up white zodiacs and alching them. over and over again til it rolled godly. Same can be said for weapons, gloves, rings, ammys, boots, amd even helms.

Any item that has tons of mods, many of which are needed together to make the item good is not worth crafting. This is where alchs come in.

Yes, as far as I know only es armors and physical weapons are worth alt/regaling, the rest are better off being alched.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Alchs actually have a very powerful trick up their sleeves. You know how people chance glorious plates and gold rings?

You farm whites. Tons of em. Epsis amazing chest armour was made not with crafting, but by picking up white zodiacs and alching them. over and over again til it rolled godly. Same can be said for weapons, gloves, rings, ammys, boots, amd even helms.

Any item that has tons of mods, many of which are needed together to make the item good is not worth crafting. This is where alchs come in.

Farm whites? Sure, but... it's not like whites with 5L/6L drop every day. If you're alching 4L gloves/helm/boots, I guess that's fine, but 4L don't drop that often either. Anything below a 4L is a total waste, because even if you get a great item, you still need to waste an obnoxious number of sockets/links (that you should be saving for trade or use on some godly 6S) to make them usable.

And it's not like people are running ievel 67+ maps every day? Or at least, I'm not. I've never even run an ilevel 68 map or higher. So getting whites of those ilevels or higher is a bit tricky.

edit: Oh. I see. I'm thinking about this from an ES point. I mostly play ES characters. So maybe alchs are more valuable than I'm thinking?

edit edit: People clamoring to ban the use of PoE helper: How do you propose GGG do this? It's... basically impossible to distinguish traffic and ban people based off that. What makes my POE site which is examining 30 items linked on the forums and storing them in a database, distinguishable from you running POE helper? The amount of code necessary to catch somebody using POE helper... would be immense. And who's to say it would even work.

If we have to ban POE Helper then it means the recipe has to go. There is no viable solution if we think we need to stop the use of that plugin. You have to ditch the recipe at that point.

You're changing the context.

One particular "approach" to crafting is.... Alchemy as FIRST STEP. No links, no nothing.

Craft the sockets and links after you get your godly stats.

You actually just cut out... 100+ scours from your crafting process. To be filled in by 300+ jewelers, sure? Not like you've got a perfect 6L glorious plate chillin in the corner.

And if you do, obviously you won't be taking this approach.

If your choice is to alch trash un-linked un-socketed whites, vs a 4-link you have stashed? You're going to burn those alchs on trash whites instead of having to invest scours to keep a 4-link. 4-linking is cheaper than all the scours you'll spend just to avoid trashing it.

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anubite wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Alchs actually have a very powerful trick up their sleeves. You know how people chance glorious plates and gold rings?

You farm whites. Tons of em. Epsis amazing chest armour was made not with crafting, but by picking up white zodiacs and alching them. over and over again til it rolled godly. Same can be said for weapons, gloves, rings, ammys, boots, amd even helms.

Any item that has tons of mods, many of which are needed together to make the item good is not worth crafting. This is where alchs come in.

Farm whites? Sure, but... it's not like whites with 5L/6L drop every day. If you're alching 4L gloves/helm/boots, I guess that's fine, but 4L don't drop that often either. Anything below a 4L is a total waste, because even if you get a great item, you still need to waste an obnoxious number of sockets/links (that you should be saving for trade or use on some godly 6S) to make them usable.

And it's not like people are running ievel 67+ maps every day? Or at least, I'm not. I've never even run an ilevel 68 map or higher. So getting whites of those ilevels or higher is a bit tricky.

edit: Oh. I see. I'm thinking about this from an ES point. I mostly play ES characters. So maybe alchs are more valuable than I'm thinking?

edit edit: People clamoring to ban the use of PoE helper: How do you propose GGG do this? It's... basically impossible to distinguish traffic and ban people based off that. What makes my POE site which is examining 30 items linked on the forums and storing them in a database, distinguishable from you running POE helper? The amount of code necessary to catch somebody using POE helper... would be immense. And who's to say it would even work.

If we have to ban POE Helper then it means the recipe has to go. There is no viable solution if we think we need to stop the use of that plugin. You have to ditch the recipe at that point.

It doesn't have to be a 4l item to be worth alching. Getting 4l on an item is relatively easy... after you've alched hundreds and finally get an amazing one who cares about a few fusing?
Plus you can sell any good ones you find that aren't "good enough" for you without having to link them yourself.
Plus every item you alch which becomes junk is another rare in your stash... which in the long run is half the cost back :P


PoE helper itself could be detected/banned due to the way it scans the data, but similar programs could (and would) be made that would not be distinguishable... it's even possible to have one which just reads your game memory whenever you play and doesn't ever have to "scan" for an update, it could update on-the-fly as you deposit rares into your stash. So yea even if they wanted to try to shut down external programs for inventory management, they couldn't.

Im not sure how GGG will handle PoE helper, but I think people do agree programs like PoE helper is the majority of the reason one can so easily name match and create an extreme amount of alch without any kind effort. That is contradictory toward the entire goal of ARPG, more grind should be more rewarding.

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Alchs actually have a very powerful trick up their sleeves. You know how people chance glorious plates and gold rings?

You farm whites. Tons of em. Epsis amazing chest armour was made not with crafting, but by picking up white zodiacs and alching them. over and over again til it rolled godly. Same can be said for weapons, gloves, rings, ammys, boots, amd even helms.

Any item that has tons of mods, many of which are needed together to make the item good is not worth crafting. This is where alchs come in.

This perhaps is part of the problem, the useless rare can be turned into 1.2 alch. With unlimited supply of white items, 100 alch actually gives you 200 tries.

PoE helper will not be banned. I've only seen two quotes from chris on this topic.

In one, he said he doesn't like it. The reasoning was some combination of stress on the website, and the notion of having to use something out-of-game.

In the other, he said people really like PoE helper, so they'll likely tolerate it (open-ended statement implying, forever).

Later, GGG announced that the website will eventually have an API so that addons can be "streamlined". Read that as: do this faster, so our website doesn't have to work so hard. Doesn't that imply that GGG intends to keep it functional?

Anyway, eliminating PoE helper isn't an option. It's just not likely to happen. Their much more REASONABLE course of action to eliminate it would be to add matching functionality to your stash, so that it just becomes unnecessary.

Another note, most alch And regal generators, like myself, do not keep every rare.

I've found boots and gloves to not be worth the investment in stash space. They tend to only match with another boot or glove item.

Meaning, alching white ammys, rings, gloves and various weapons simply get turned into alts.

As a final note, when I do get a godly item with Alchs, everything but a chest, since an ES chest is easy crafting with CI, I merely have to 4 link it. So what?

In regards to even 6 linking an item. Guess what, if it's godly, you'll NEVER have to fuse another 6 L EVER AGAIN. This is why I always get my 6L chest first, since from then on, everything is basically pure profit.