OP Legacy Uniques are the worst decision i've seen from the devs thus far
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Slider13 wrote:
Spoiler
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ScrotieMcB wrote:
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iamstryker wrote:
Spoiler
As a player who up to this point has only played standard exclusively I have never been so disappointed by a change in this game. I'm not here to just cry and threaten to leave the game or anything but I definitely want to be heard on the subject regardless.
The devs decided that there was a need to nerf some of the uniques. Some people agree and some people don't. If the devs feel that there was a need then great I am behind them. However if you only nerf future versions of the unique then the effect on the leagues that will have the old uniques is that the OP uniques are now more important and powerful than they were before. The problem you were attempting to fix is effectively worse.
I realize that this isn't a problem for those who don't play standard and don't care about it, but what about the players that do? GGG knows how many people play standard exclusively or the majority of the time. It means that the main game for a huge portion of players is now more messed up than it was before. GGG why did you do this? There had to be a better way that this. I have always been against uniques deemed over powered but making them legacy is far worse to me. I would rather you never changed them at all.
I know standard is a "dumping grounds" or "legacy" league as many of you call it. But please try to look at it from my perspective for a second. I thought I could enjoy playing standard the way that I wanted to do it and always be content with the game. I felt the devs still cared about standard just like the other leagues because really I have had no reason to think that they didn't. This change really makes me look at the game differently. I hope I am wrong but I feel I will look at the game differently now that there are uniques that you can't find that are much better than their droppable counterparts. It really might actually make me look at standard in a very negative light.
I hope I get over it but I have never been so disappointed since I began to play in closed beta. Maybe it won't be as bad as my initial reaction here. I hope not.
Please keep all comments constructive. I still love this game.
Well, I can at least rest assured that my previous opinion of you was totally justified. When it comes to a controversial, populist issue where the (apparent) majority is in the wrong, it certainly appears you can count on iamstriker to stand on the side of wrongness.
Here's the important thing to consider here: there are players who love their old unique items. They farmed them or traded for them, they are theirs rightfully; I guess there are some crooks too, but fuck them, I'm talking about the innocent here. They want to keep these items, and you know what? They should be able to. That's why GGG did it; they were thinking about the rights and desires a group other than you.
And just like with the loot options issue, your suggestion is to marginalize a playstyle not your own, boosting yours at its expense. (Granted, last time you were much more subtle; but can we not agree by now that the introduction of loot options meant the death of Short Allocation? Can we at least stop pretending that which is dead has not been murdered?)
Now I'm not saying that your particular playstyle isn't a little deteriorated by this. I agree that it is. But a suggestion that addresses your rights and your desires is no longer just if it infringes on the rights and desires of others. There should be a place where legacy uniques exist; and if not in the "legacy league," if not in the "dumping ground," then where?
Thus the challenge is finding solutions to your plight that don't inflict plights on others. Just as with the loot options thing, there is a tangible problem which requires solving, it's just that the obvious solutions are the immoral ones, and therefore it's necessary to put on one's thinking cap and seek solutions which benefit your playstyle at the expense of no one. This solutions will not be easy or obvious. The obvious, immoral option will be the most popular, and we must fight it while coming up with better solutions.
Here's one right off the top of my head (not sure how good it is): What if we had a non-Legacy PvP mode for Standard and Hardcore leagues? Simply put, any legacy unique (or legacy Onyx amulet with its superior +all attributes mod, etc.) would ban your character from participation. This would allow new characters to challenge very old characters on an even playing field in Standard PvP.
Perhaps the same concept with a ladder; if the character has legacy items equipped or has ever had them equipped (after a certain date specified by GGG to give players some time to make their characters "non-Legacy legal"), their character is ineligible for this ladder. That way you can see who levels the best playing it fair.
Stuff like that, iamstryker — that's where your brain should be going here. Don't invest your effort and intellect in trying to figure out ways to take legacy items away from the players who love them; instead, try to figure out ways to carve out a niche for yourself without infringing on others. I believe you can do it, if you try. However, I'm not holding my breath.
I have *insert op legacy item* and want to keep it that way.
The fact is you dont deserve to have a versikn that is better than other peolle can have. End of story. You cannot articulate a solid reason why the next ten milloin kaoms/shavs/facebreakers should all be worse than yous except you own elitism.
It might surprise you to know that I own almost zero items getting Legacy'd. I have one pair of Rainbowstrides and 1 pair of Facebreakers. That's it.
I'm not looking out for the legacy Kaom's folks with personal gain as my motivation; I'm looking out for them because it's the right thing to do. I'm looking out for them because they do deserve the items they got, which they found and didn't trade away when they commanded their highest, pre-release values, or which they traded for or Chanced when the item commanded the maximum amount of value. Save the "you don't deserve that item" argument for someone who hasn't traded away Exalts upon Exalts to get something which was at the pinnacle of power... and its previous owner knew it. Or better yet, save it for someone so bereft of vision — or so blinded by jealousy — that they cannot even imagine such a situation.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Oct 23, 2013, 5:23:59 AM
If you actively argue in defense of legacy items & don't do the same
for legacy passives & legacy gems...take a moment and realize... you are a giant hypocrite.
Entitlement is unbecoming.
Ultimately it's GGG's right to change any part of your toon for balance,
just as it's their right to leave our legacy items be. I prefer balance & realize it's fluid,
but which ever side gets their way, admit you're not entitled to legacy or balance, in PoE.
"It is absurd to divide people into good and bad.
People are either charming or tedious."
-Oscar Wilde
well....i don't know why ur crying....there gonna be a lot of change after the release and maybe AT the release, also theres new 'OP' unique incoming. and you need OP item to be a OP player ?
Its like everyone is retarded. The point of nerfing is because you admit that something is stronger than it ever should have been, not to allow you to make new items to fill the void so you can rotate in a fresh crop of op gear. Either the ite are fine as is or they aren'. If they are leave tuem aline. If they aren't change them all. It's very simple.
Or better yet, save it for someone so blinded by jealousy that they cannot even imagine such a situation.
I guess this is the best argument pro-legacy players can come up with. It has its merits, I admit, but it's not really that good and it's getting stale fast.
Wish the armchair developers would go back to developing armchairs.
If you actively argue in defense of legacy items & don't do the same
for legacy passives & legacy gems...take a moment and realize... you are a giant hypocrite.
In the particular case of Cleave, where its overpoweredness is almost exclusively in a race format (and thus racing is the sole motivation for its nerf)... I actually wouldn't have a problem with "Legacy Cleave." I don't know if GGG has the ability to make this happen, but I think it would be a good thing if they could.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
well, who will spend 60 exalts on an item in the future if there is a possibility that it get nerfed in few patches ?
People are grinding to get gear, if you nerf gear badly , who will invest time in this game anymore ?
Of course people sitting on 3k exalts won't care much, but many casuals are playing 6 months to pay 1 Kaom or 1 Shav, how could they feel after a legacy nerf ?
Ofc there is a balance issue for PvP but I am pretty sure that GGG will find a solution here.
Agreed 100%. +1
ppl like you, who tries to justify leaving some broken items in game just boggles my mind.
items woudn't cost 60 exalts if they were balanced in the first place. and thats what ggg did in this patch - they fixed them. why they leaving all this legacy junk in the game is beyond me.
1) Balance: PvP in Standard and Hardcore leagues would be dominated by legacy equipment
2) Economy: a huge inflation of the value of those items
3) Balance + Economy: legacy possessors will grind high end content much more efficiently, acquiring maps, currencies and good drops more easily
I think the big one is the first, and i would solve it firmly with a 'no legacy items allowed in pvp' . This is necessary imho.
The second problem could be solved by making the items tradable ONLY if divined first. But this is optional imho, it could be fair though.
The third can't be solved, because the nature of the decision to have legacy items implies this point; personally I can live with this.
These are just my 2 cents
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Last edited by ObscureBalrog#5153 on Oct 23, 2013, 5:29:47 AM
I'm looking out for them because they do deserve the items they got, which they found and didn't trade away when they commanded...
They don't deserve to keep an item that GGG deemed to be overpowered and balanced for the rest of us. They deserve to keep the item in a balanced form.
Why is so many pro-legacy arguments I see focused around the idea that GGG would be taking something away from them? That’s not even the case, you still get to keep the item in its new form. GGG is taking away a lot from my builds by balancing their skills, should I complain about not getting to keep legacy Fire Trap?
Well, I can at least rest assured that my previous opinion of you was totally justified. When it comes to a controversial, populist issue where the (apparent) majority is in the wrong, it certainly appears you can count on iamstriker to stand on the side of wrongness.
No matter what issue people are discussing I can usually count on you to have the most convulted, confusing, and unnecessary answer for it. Enough to make me yawn and think about how you need to get a girlfriend or something because you spend too much time thinking about this game. And even if I somewhat agree with you its tough to do that due to your unyielding arrogance about it.
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Here's the important thing to consider here: there are players who love their old unique items. They farmed them or traded for them, they are theirs rightfully; I guess there are some crooks too, but fuck them, I'm talking about the innocent here. They want to keep these items, and you know what? They should be able to. That's why GGG did it; they were thinking about the rights and desires a group other than you.
Thanks for that, I feel so bad now for caring about the overall game and its future instead of the butt hurt from rich no lifes and flippers. In a beta changes happen for the good of the game. Leaving mistakes in the game to not make people mad is a mistake itself.
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And just like with the loot options issue, your suggestion is to marginalize a playstyle not your own, boosting yours at its expense. (Granted, last time you were much more subtle; but can we not agree by now that the introduction of loot options meant the death of Short Allocation? Can we at least stop pretending that which is dead has not been murdered?)
As long as its still used then its still alive. I run short allocation with a friend regularly. Is the game better with loot options? Yes.
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Now I'm not saying that your particular playstyle isn't a little deteriorated by this. I agree that it is. But a suggestion that addresses your rights and your desires is no longer just if it infringes on the rights and desires of others. There should be a place where legacy uniques exist; and if not in the "legacy league," if not in the "dumping ground," then where?
At least respond to my arguments. I never said anything against legacy uniques. My thread is about OP legacy uniques. Big difference.
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Thus the challenge is finding solutions to your plight that don't inflict plights on others. Just as with the loot options thing, there is a tangible problem which requires solving, it's just that the obvious solutions are the immoral ones, and therefore it's necessary to put on one's thinking cap and seek solutions which benefit your playstyle at the expense of no one. This solutions will not be easy or obvious. The obvious, immoral option will be the most popular, and we must fight it while coming up with better solutions.
Oh no here it comes. I haven't even read it yet and I know its going to be ridiculous.
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Here's one right off the top of my head (not sure how good it is): What if we had a non-Legacy PvP mode for Standard and Hardcore leagues? Simply put, any legacy unique (or legacy Onyx amulet with its superior +all attributes mod, etc.) would ban your character from participation. This would allow new characters to challenge very old characters on an even playing field in Standard PvP.
I never once mentioned pvp in my OP and somehow thats what you think this is about. "facepalm"
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Perhaps the same concept with a ladder; if the character has legacy items equipped or has ever had them equipped (after a certain date specified by GGG to give players some time to make their characters "non-Legacy legal"), their character is ineligible for this ladder. That way you can see who levels the best playing it fair.
And I thought you knew me. I talk about how I have no interest at all in playing the temporary leagues but you think a ladder would make me happy??
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Stuff like that, iamstryker — that's where your brain should be going here. Don't invest your effort and intellect in trying to figure out ways to take legacy items away from the players who love them; instead, try to figure out ways to carve out a niche for yourself without infringing on others. I believe you can do it, if you try. However, I'm not holding my breath.
Thanks for the terrible ideas but I'd rather encourage the devs to remove their mistakes from the game instead of leaving them in. For someone who is usually very controversial its really discouraging to see you want to caudle people so much. Please go read everyone a nice bedtime story and tell them no one will ever touch their precious overpowered uniques. Don't forget to tuck them in and a nice kiss on the cheek.
Why is so many pro-legacy arguments I see focused around the idea that GGG would be taking something away from them?
Because that is precisely what you're proposing.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
