Orb of Fusing and general currency problems

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SL4Y3R wrote:

On your last sentence, having 40 tabs doesn't help a lot. I will be doing a write up about this later today though, because I did find a way to abuse it.

Also, a 5L is incredibly powerful. I would actually consider a 5L the same as your 700ES roll. While 1k would be a 6L.

Please GGG no guaranteed fusings or single link fusings or whatever. Although, I do think there should be a way for someone to get RRRRRR on an INT chest in an easier fashion.

My point is more that there's no reason to even TRY matching 3 names unless you have excessive amounts of stash space. My 6 tabs would leave 2 or 3 free for rare name matching, the most efficient use of which would be 3- or 4-slot weapons and armor. Jewelry and belts are immediately spent on Chaos recipes.

Whether 5L is really enough depends on your build. I've had builds where the main ability only really needed 3 supports to function, and others where 4 supports really didn't feel like enough. Plus, as long as the IIR and IIQ gems exist, 6L is almost always optimal.

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lethal_papercut wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

Wouldn't these just be traded? This is why exalts are so rare, it is the only item in the game to FOR SURE make a great item better.

Also,I cannot stand the idea of an orb that guarantees a 6S or 6L, unless Chris once said, cost 1500 fusings.

Any orb that is rare and guarantees effects which just be traded by those who can afford it.

I'm not quite sure you read my post correctly. I am saying that the usefulness & rarity of high level gems is currently out of whack. Ex's aren't a guaranteed good addition, if I use one on a wand with SD & Crit looking for cast speed & get phys damage then its a complete waste. Ex's are super rare & this does not fall in line with their actual usefulness.

I am proposing the orbs I listed as a super duper rare orb much like a mirror is now. Yes a 6socket/link orb shouldn't drop regularly but I don't see why you would be so against it & yet fine with a mirror...how does it affect you negatively? are you swimming in mirrors to where having these orbs would cause a problem? I think not.

The point is it makes little sense for the rarest of the orbs to be just as useful as ones that drop regularly just because there is actually a lack in variety when it comes to orbs in general.

As I said in my 1st post, I really hope this isn't all the orbs we ever see because to be quite frank it comes across as rarity for the sake of rarity and not because the items are actually worth grinding for.

Exalts are not fishing lures. Without cast speed, a wand is pretty meh.

Crafting weapons is a terrible idea due to the amount of mods, using alchs on white ones is fine, but attempting to craft a wand, as in your example is a terrible idea and will almost always fail.

My point is, if people sell mirrors, which most are sold, than why wouldn't someone sell a 6L gem in the same fashion?

Maybe because they actually want 6links on their armor?

Edit: Mirrors are only useful when you know someone with very nice gear who is willing to let you mirror their gear...other than they are completely useless as an actual orb. If I find a mirror today then there is no way for me to use it other then to trade. I don't know people with good gear & wouldn't approach people I don't know with it either.
Yet if you find one you suddenly become one of the richest players in the league. This makes sense to you? A relatively useless orb being the most expensive & the only one to be that rare?

It's easy to poo poo ideas but it's harder to offer some actual forward development. Saying "things are great as it is" when it's quite obvious they aren't doesn't really help anyone.

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lethal_papercut wrote:

Maybe because they actually want 6links on their armor?

People sell mirrors. Mirrors can/are the best items in the game. So mirror = 6L + best stats. Yet most people sell them.

I fail to see how this exact same thing wouldn't happen with a 6L orb.

Check my edit above.

They already have a nice mix of random and designated rewards in the current system. If they were to go to the extreme in either direction it would alienate a lot of people.

The only change I see being needed is the vendor multiple item buy idea.

And increasing the drop rate of Alch for me only ;-)

How about we see quality on orbs? We have quality on gear & gems so why not orbs?

Examples could be:

10% quality Armor Scrap could do 10% quality on gear, 20%(max) would do 20, and all the ones in between.

1%quality orbs would be more frequent & 20% would be rare.

This could work for more than just the scrap...

Quality scrolls could ID all your inventory, quality Alchs could have a better chance of rolling higher bracket stats, quality chance orbs would have a better chance of rolling rare/unique gear, quality fuses could have a higher chance of 5/6links. Those are just off the top of my head while I write the post.

What I am getting at mainly is that I think there should be more orbs in the game. There really aren't that many & I am sure GGG are more than capable of developing many more types of useful orbs to enrich the game further.

As it stands the intention for orbs to be a goldless currency isn't really working out, there is a fairly stringent exchange rate for most orbs & the whole "players will decide their own value"/organic approach has already stagnated aside from the odd bro-deal.

Most 'high level' orbs seem to be used solely for currency & I feel that's due to over rarity of said items. People are almost obliged to sell them as their usefulness value is much lower than what it takes to find them.

That often means most high level orbs make their way to the top players who have other currency to trade for them (& have a use for them as they are trying to make godly items).

Folks in the top of the table have found the top ilevel items & are dumping copious amounts of orbs into them, yes upping the drop rates on ex's & divines will make their job a little easier to make jesus gear but maybe that's a flaw that needs more depth added to it rather than something that's right and the rest of the game should be balanced around.

I don't see why you should be waiting for endgame grind to add 1 stat to your rare. Having an ex and using it while mid game is merely going to add 1 more potentially good stat to your gear, it won't make you an OP badass and won't break the game.

I believe if the drop rates of high level orbs were increased then it would mean people are more willing to use them on gear that isn't necessarily godly but that could just use a few more stats. This would be a balancing item sink & not only that as we have seen with chisels instead of it being 4 to a gcp, it's now 6. No big deal.

The introduction of more & more varied orbs will mean that there is a much greater possibility for people to value orbs differently & for there to be a fluctuation in orbs value. Alsong as the drop rates are adjusted accordingly there should be no concern of destroying the economy & should actually strengthen it further with the added depth.

As I already said, if I find a mirror today then I instantly become one of the richest players in the game. The few guys who love the races & have spent a great deal of time perfecting the levelling process generally get nice orbs from races which also has a somewhat significant effect on the economy. They only need to be awarded a few ex/div/gcp to become a lot more wealthy than a 'regular' player. If that's not economy breaking I don't know what is.

TLDR I'd like to see more types of orbs in the game & their drop rate to become more inline with their actual usefulness.

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lethal_papercut wrote:

TLDR I'd like to see more types of orbs in the game & their drop rate to become more inline with their actual usefulness.

Here is the crux of the matter.
'Actual usefulness' is highly subjective.
I believe certainty should be very costly and should only give median rewards.

I believe the current system is doing well treading that fine line between randomness and determination, and as another poster mentioned, to swing it strongly either way would likely create a whole new basket of issues that will need addressing.

I would appreciate if some of the more recent closed beta members could take some time to read through some of the older currency threads. There are some very insightful posts that have been shared by various other members of this community which also addressed the 'bridging' issue between low level 'utility' orbs and high level 'end game' orbs.
Dev Diary: Rethinking Gold as a Currency
Why I'm done with this game (at least for now)
On the subject of Gold.

It appears to me that the primary separation between the two sides of this discussion is whether or not there is a linear sense of progression as one levels and how people are interpreting what 'progression' and 'reward' mean.

If one was to look at the market system and the currency orbs not as rewards and indicators of progression in and of themselves, but simply a sophisticated mechanism to assist with gear progression, which is what I believe to be the true standard (without the right gear/gems/weapons, you cannot proceed past a certain point), I think the picture would become much clearer to a lot of people.

I agree some new orbs would be nice, or quality orbs as a previous poster stated. I certainly dont think people should have the absolute best gear by the time they 'beat' the game. As long as the gear or orb drops are sufficient to allow a average/decent build to beat the final act then that is fine.

On the hardest difficulty perhaps you should need a little above average items, or at least a few and a decent build. Everything after that, like maps is what should take the time to craft the 'best' gear. Otherwise you can only make new builds and run them through the game so many times before there isnt much else to do.

As to vendoring up to alchemy orbs, im fine with that as long as they are not super easy to get. As to the other rarer orbs, i think some are a bit too rare. Either that or i have very bad luck with rng.

In over 2 months and more of playing, never seen a divine,mirror, or exalted drop. Only found one blessed,two gcps and three regals.

like others have said, Im not sure i'd get any use of the gcps, or an exalted if i even had one. I'd most likely just use to buy something with them. I dont want them to be super common, but after running a few builds to endgame i'd like to be able to at least make a gem a quality gem by actually using gcp's, or be able to use some of the rarer orbs at least a couple times.

I dont have the answer to the best change to the system, but i definitely dont want to see all orbs so common that everyone has the best gear in a month. Awesome items should be something you put some effort into making. I just dont think a few extra rare orbs turning up would affect the economy that much, since they would most likely get used more. And like we all know, your never gauranteed a good result when rng is involved.

Would be cool i think that once you beat the game on the highest difficutly you should get a quest reward, just your choice a pick from all the orbs, excluding mirror. At least you could get an exalt, or a gcp if you needed one, and still would require more time to beat all difficulties to get one rare orb than i think it would be to just run maps in that same amount of time and get alot more orbs.

to TehHammer.

Yeah you're right. BUT

until you roll a map with an orb to purposely increase the quantity modifier of ONLY that map, the rest of the game does not give better currency rewards for clearing later game content.

put another way:

the game will reward you with more currency ONLY when you do a map you have consumed currency on to make it more difficult than the base map.

and another way just to make sure:

the game does not reward you better for clearing higher level base content.

Hence, I do not feel rewarded during Ruthless or Merciless. Which imo I should feel rewarded for clearing those levels. Hell I don't even feel rewarded doing a base level map which is higher level than the end of merciless. I should, in currency terms be getting more gratuitous fountains of gold :)