Orb of Fusing and general currency problems

We've talked about this.

You are being rewarded. With more exp, better base items, better mod types, and the like.

Go play on normal and tell me how many good items you get for character. If that character out levels the area, they won't find anything useful. Ever.

So if you find an upgrade while playing in merciless/ maps, guess what you've been rewarded for playing harder content.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

We've talked about this.

You are being rewarded. With more exp, better base items, better mod types, and the like.

Go play on normal and tell me how many good items you get for character. If that character out levels the area, they won't find anything useful. Ever.

So if you find an upgrade while playing in merciless/ maps, guess what you've been rewarded for playing harder content.

As I said to you earlier.

I feel like I am not being rewarded going through after cruel.

I'm not talking about how you feel or think. Just stating my feelings on the current state of the currency drops.

I'm glad you feel you are being rewarded. I do not feel the same and have stated all my reasons above. My reasons will not change. My feeling will not change. It just is. I'm glad you have a counterpoint and you feel differently. Otherwise I would be scared as it wuold seem like I'm talking to myself :P

remember, in my view "potential" of base items are not rewards. They require work and currency to "realise" the potential. I should be getting showers of currency for doing better leveled areas compared to lower level areas. Then I am rewarded. Then am I able to spend my earned rewards "realising" the "potential" of "base" item drops which were not rewarding.

please remember. Just my opinion. There is no right or wrong. It just is.

I don't really see why we should get more rewards than we already do. Its not like we are doing content that we are not prepared for. We are leveling and growing in power with the game. The equipment gets better which is all I ever really expected.

Slayer, what you and other status-quo upholders are not understanding is the concept of 'natural' progression. What you are condoning is no more complicated than basic addict harvesting, a sales technique most commonly employed by any standard drug dealer - you are saying, here, try this orb system for free and then, once the player is addicted, holding back orbs in order to THEN charge extortionate prices.

I'm not over-stating the comparison, this is a time worn 'system' of trade and can even be achieved 'politely' by simply offering people 'free samples' of something really nice.

Did you notice I used the word 'nice' there. It implies I do actually 'like' the Orb system - so please don't panic.

What the flaw is, is no more complicated than misunderstanding.

For the first and second difficulty levels we are supplied with copious amounts of:

1. Scrolls of Wisdom
2. Portal Scrolls
3. Transmutation Orbs
4. Orbs of Augmentation
5. Orbs of Transmutation
6. Orbs of Chance

There is no dramatic sense of rarity for these items at any point. Our characters simply find the latest Base Equipment (White goods) and 'naturally' apply the relevant Orbs to improve our kit into Magical (blue) goods.

It feels natural, engaging and, well, logical.

As we approach and begin the third difficulty level we are now quite used to getting exited by Rare (yellow) drops and both the White and Blue equipment starts to feel 'poor' even if the few stats it does have are awesome.

We are now accustomed to being at least 80% attired in Yellows.

It is at this point that all the 'logic' of our previous Orb lust suddenly evaporates and we are left wondering how best to 'proceed' with our sense of 'drop excitement'.

This is also the point in the game when Support Gems start to become extremely numerous.

It is blatantly obvious to everyone who feels there is a problem that this is the point when the current system starts to fail. I honestly cannot conceive why a selection of rabid board posters seem to 'miss' this blatantly obvious change in the game mindset.

It is at this point that players will 'naturally' expect the next level of Orbs to be more prevalent:

1. Orbs of Alchemy
2. Exalted Orbs
3. Chaos Orbs
4. Regal Orbs
5. Blessed Orbs

Because these Orbs do exactly the process at the earlier Orbs, but are now doing it for the (really quite common) Rare equipment which the player is now almost exclusively wearing.

To fail to make this logical step is... totally illogical.

The second set of Orbs is no more or no less 'useful' than the first. The Orbs will produce just as many bum results as they will half decent results, there is absolutely no sense of 'overpowerment' with these Orbs.

It is entirely you and only you (you equating to any status-quo'er) who perceives these Orbs as somehow 'powerful' simply because they are rare and for no other reason.

Once the third difficulty is complete and one starts to embrace the 'hardest' difficulty, or what 'many' people (in open BETA) will view as 'End-Game' then the next level of Orbs becomes 'logical', that being the ability to support three or four Support Gems, at which point the next set of Orbs should become more 'normally' available and used:

1. Jeweller's Orbs
2. Chromatic Orbs
3. Orbs of Fusion

And these Orbs don't even need to be 'Random' Orbs like the previous two sets. These can quite easily be viewed as 'solid' Orbs similar in nature to:

1. Armourer's Scrap
2. Blacksmith's Whetstone
3. Glassblower's Bauble
4. Gem Cutter's Prism

However, unlike this last set, they could simply be withheld until people actually 'need' them, ie: the last difficulty.

If you want genuinely exciting and (outside the game) tradeable commodities which are more likely to fall into the hands of long-term heavy commitment players then simply create Orbs which are Unique, just as we have with Equipment, and already have with, as already exampled, the Mirror Orb.

If something is Unique then no player will either expect or demand it and all players will respect it's 'true' value, rather than feel disgruntled that someone is 'deliberately' withholding something for the sake of preserving 'what used to be'.

Suggesting 'overpowerment' as a valid point is utterly crazy as you yourself agree that the Base Equipment does not stop improving. If someone has a 6L Rare Breastplate with Maxed Mods at the start of the third difficulty (because that's when they chose to expend most of their 'tradeable' Orbs, then that's their choice - at some point they are still going to have to replace it and start the process all over again - something only the truly committed will be able to achieve on a regular basis.

As a final note regarding Gold versus Orbs, I say stick with Orbs - but for heavens sake don't bleat on about it being a non-currency game - either have linear currency progression or simply do away with the in-game dealers and let the most charismatic/bullying (real world) get the best equipment outside the game. This 6 of one and half a dozen of the other system is no better than any political compromise, it'll just piss off both parties.

Also, find other ways to 'reward' long service, the ideas in this respect are limitless, but, for heavens sake, don't fuck up the mechanics with half-arsed falsehoods.

It seems you have made up your mind and wont listen to what other players are saying when they try to explain to you why your ideas would hurt the game. :|

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It seems you have made up your mind and wont listen to what other players are saying when they try to explain to you why your ideas would hurt the game. :|

Well, I just 'listened' to your post and you know what... irt said the grand sum of FUCK ALL.

It has to be said that its interesting that folks seems to feel changing the drop rates on rare currency would have such a detrimental effect to the game when recently map & chisel drop rates have been tinkered with multiple times at the request of high level players.

Maps are also a currency but they are also a lot more than that. They bring more wealth into the game & now there are more chisels & maps going around its fair to say that more high level gear is entering the economy than before.

Not only that maps/chisels can also be sold for orbs so by upping the drop rate of them it has had a effect on the economy just like adding more high level orbs would.

Chisels used to be 4 to a gcp...now they are 6. Did that "hurt the game"? I don't think so but maybe as some folks are already rocking 6linked jesus gear just 2weeks after wipe maybe it did?

The biggest difference I see in the points of view I am reading are where they come from.

IF I choose to base my thoughts on the currency system by first anchoring my thoughts where the currency is at the moment (ie, each orb is the value it currently is at and any changes to this are therefore bad), then I would come to the conclusion nothing needs to change.

IF I choose to base my thoughts on how I feel on the currency system without a precognition of what the values are currently, but what I would expect to be receiving as I progress through the levels, I feel how I have stated in my previous posts.

My currency drops should get better tier and/or more copius. I should NOT get the same number and type of currency drops throughout the entire game.

If they orbs are not supposed to be currency, this needs to be shown much more clearly, as currently, they ARE currency. I like that though. I just want to see a proper linear progression of cheap - > rich, and as I plough through higher and higher level content I should get more currency of the rich type.

If D1 or D2 only ever dropped 1-10 gold piece piles for the WHOLE game, how would that make you feel. That is the metaphor I am currently playing in POE. I get the same drops at the beginning all the way through to the end.

and If you want to bring up selling other items from the ground and say that it is different. It's not. in D1 and D2 the dropped equipment sold for more and more. again cheap - > expensive as you progressed. In POE, equipment sells for the same for the WHOLE game.

EDIT: as always

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StillSingle wrote:

If D1 or D2 only ever dropped 1-10 gold piece piles for the WHOLE game, how would that make you feel. That is the metaphor I am currently playing in POE. I get the same drops at the beginning all the way through to the end.

and If you want to bring up selling other items from the ground and say that it is different. It's not. in D1 and D2 the dropped equipment sold for more and more. again cheap - > expensive as you progressed. In POE, equipment sells for the same for the WHOLE game.

Yes. This is basic economic theory called inflation. When one plays the game, they are accumulating wealth in the form of equipment, gems, and orbs. What one chooses to do with ones wealth (hoard it, trade it, consume it) is up to the individual. The whole idea of the economy in Path of Exile is founded on barter and the relative worth players in the game assign to various items and orbs to minimize the effect of inflation on end-game gear...

In the real world, you can drive a Civic or a Ferrari, but there is an economic barrier to entry because of the high cost of one over the other. Sure, it's affected by variables like rarity/performance envelope/branding, but when you boil it down to function, they are both still cars.

In Path of Exile, I find it unique in that when all I need is a Civic to be competitive, I can amass my wealth. Or, if I want to drive a something faster/more elegant/better looking, I can craft or trade for one at any point in my progression.

When it gets to the point where I want/need to purchase a Ferrari because my Civic doesn't feel competitive anymore, I don't have to grind for hours on end to amass enough currency in order to drive one. I could try making one myself (crafting), or I could find someone who has a used Ferrari (old gear) who is willing to sell it to me at a reasonable price. I really don't see a problem with that.

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lethal_papercut wrote:

Maps are also a currency but they are also a lot more than that. They bring more wealth into the game & now there are more chisels & maps going around its fair to say that more high level gear is entering the economy than before.

Chisels and maps are end-game orbs, and they do not directly impact the gear economy because a chisel or a map does not directly tranlate to power (i.e. gear). It simply facilitates access to the opportunity/potential of getting end game gear. The probability of finding orbs is the same as the probability of a level one character in tidal flats (barring the impact of modifiers on quantity/quality, and obviously the itemlevel).

The reason why the drop rates for these is being tinkered with is because high level players are finding it difficult to retain access to these high level zones without resorting to grinding at lower levels and/or consuming a lot of their wealth. The erosion of wealth is too high.