Orb of Fusing and general currency problems
" Of course I read it. I just referred to it that way so you would know which post I was talking about. Sorry if it bothered you. " Ok, I am just trying to get what exactly your issues are if you think the game needs to be easier to understand or more streamlined or whatever then maybe I can be on board with that. However I don't really think fusing items needs to be easier. I can't say that I am getting lucky making 4L's if I continually have a pretty easy time doing it. Its not really that difficult to get the amount of fusings that you typically need to make a 4L. Whereas a 5L is not easy to get because it typically takes a whole lot of fusings (I don't know the number but its high). I am on the forums a lot and I don't recall seeing a lot of threads complaining about making 4L's. " That would definitely be more user friendly, however with the way the game currently is it would make the game too easy IMO. " I feel like I do understand what your saying here. It would be nice to experience and use these orbs. However, since I plan on playing the game a long time I appreciate the way the game is now. Eventually I will use exalts to make some incredible items. I don't really need them in the early game so I don't mind not using them. I still love getting them because they are worth so much. " good then you do get it. " Some small changes might not hurt the game too much but changing the drop rates would effect the current economy. I would rather just keep it the way it is for consistency sake. I personally just enjoy certain items being ultra rare. I might never find a mirror the entire time I play but it would be incredible if I did find one. Its nice just knowing its out there. Standard Forever Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Oct 23, 2012, 9:49:04 PM
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" Hold on. You think you should have all of the best equipment the first time you beat the final boss on the last difficulty? People really expect that? I mean I started on the Diablo games and those games wouldn't have been nearly as good if you got all of the best stuff your first play through. That would really hurt replayability. Do you expect to play this game a long time? " You don't feel rewarded getting the higher lvl equipment, and more support gems? You have to be gaining in power to be able to beat the higher difficulties. It was rewarding for me anyway. Standard Forever Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Oct 23, 2012, 10:00:13 PM
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I agree that the vendor interface can be improved by bulk selling of same items (i.e. stacks of orbs/scrolls) which would automatically return the correct ratio of orbs in accordance with the current vendor trade ratio.
I agree that the 'currency game' would probably feel more complete to less sophisticated or 'casual' (less than 50 hours total game time commitment) players if there was a way to vendor up to the alchemy and chance orbs in a consistent fashion (i.e. sufficient grinding should provide me with enough raw material to purchase an alchemy orb without resorting to the secondary market. This may become a critical point if the numbers ultimately demonstrate that the majority of long-term players (over 100 hours game time commitment) intend to play solo and minimize their social interaction with the community. I agree that the drop rate of purchasable orbs will need to be adjusted downwards so less fall in 'the wild' so the trade economy doesn't become unbalanced by a surplus of the grindable orbs. I believe someone who has contributed 40 hours of game play time to this game should have a single character that is equipped well enough to complete Ruthless Act 3. I believe that to proceed beyond Ruthless difficulty should require a substantial investment of time/effort, and will likely require a 'gear check' and/or optimized build. Someone with 1000 hours invested in a single character should have all desired skill/support gems and the appropriately slotted gear to equip everything. I believe only two or three of the gear pieces will be optimal. The current objective of such a player is to strive to complete the 'perfect set' that synergizes with these two or three pieces. I do not believe this goal should ever be met before a ladder reset. To achieve a fully geared character with all skills/supports, stats and mods optimal should be the 'holy grail' of this game. I believe there should be more high tier orb recipes that will act as an equipment sink for rare and unique items to help control end game inflation. I believe the choice to retain RNG as the primary mechanism of equalizing wealth distribution is admirable and I hope that GGG does not deviate from this philosophy. "We were going to monitor the situation but it was in the wrong aspect ratio." Last edited by Garr0t#3474 on Oct 23, 2012, 10:03:32 PM
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Having "10 exalteds drop at the end of every act" would ruin the economy. Guaranteed drops can be abused and this is why Path of Exile, Diablo and other loot ARPGs aim to have a random drop system.
I disagree with the idea of a linear currency system. What something is worth should be decided by two people trading, and the player base as a whole. The more standardised the currency becomes, the less fun the trade metagame becomes. I agree that Orbs of Alchemy should be available at the vendors, but they should be relatively expensive. For people in mid-game they are a "gateway orb" to unlocking high end crafting options. I often find myself with a surplus of Chaos Orbs that I can't use because I have no base rares. I disagree that drops of high end orbs should be more common at higher levels. This will weight the economy extremely far in favour of high level grinding players and cause inflation which will shut out lower level players from trading top end gear. Item drop rates should always be linked with gear, because it supports what I believe is the central principle of Path of Exile: Opportunity cost. It's in the keystones, it's in the skill tree, it's in the skill gems, and it's in the trade system. Never_nou, I think your expectations lean toward linear progression, which is why you've become dissatisfied with orb drops. But in a game of extreme randomness like PoE or D2, you cannot be guaranteed constant incremental gear/socket upgrades. Instead, you have to make choices about what to keep and what to sacrifice. Do you equip a better armour for protection, or keep your older gear with a better socket combination? Or do you take a chance at linking its sockets with currency items, but depleting your wealth and trading power? Being offered these choices in every aspect of the game is what makes PoE fun for me. If you understand that currency items are about "rerolling the dice" rather than "makes gear better", you'll find that there is depth and strategy in how this conflict between certainty and chance is managed. |
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" He means that while you could upgrade to orbs of alchemy (which is not currently possible), giving non-random access to rare items, exalted and regal orbs would still be unavailable at vendors. Thus, due to the rarity and random acquisition of those orbs, adding affixes to items would still be a rare activity. |
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" Correction, NOT the end boss of the last difficulty (oversoul in merciless), the last boss of the end content (currently a level 70 map boss). That is a very big difference, and a significant amount of more time to get there. No I don't feel rewarded for clearing the higher level difficulties. Gear drops were not better than what I was wearing. Currecny drops were not better than previously. I was not rewarded. (what I did do was wait patiently for a goot socket linked drop and slowly labourously craft it into something better, but the time it took to do this, I needed to be crafting an even higher level item, which wouldn't drop until much later, and circle continued). A good example of a game where grinding always gave you increases in your power is dark souls. you gained in lvls and crafting materials that would always INCREASE your power. You never spent crafting materials on lowering the power of a weapon. I hope this cleared up my meanings for you. |
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" I disagree with your extrapolation for the following reasons (all being opinion, and extrapolation myself, please don't take it personally as it is not meant in that way): 1. equipment is level bound currently. Therefore, the toons who would be buying low level equipment would have access to low level currency at good drop rates. Therefore they would not be locked out of the trading. 2. high level equipment would not be bought by low level toons as they cannot use it. When they can use it, they will also have access to the higher currecncy drop areas. 3. inflation requires a base case. And the base case needs to be consistent. Changing the economy at a fundamental level such that the higher tier orbs are more common when completing higher level content bascially creates a new economy basis, therefore measuring the difference between it, and the current economy pointless. The number doesn't mean anything. 4. as one statement: If items are have min toon lvl restrictions, having currency drop better at higher difficulties will not cause players to not afford trade. They will trade for gear they can use for the price that is fair for that level givin the currency drop rates for that level. ie, a player selling a mid level gear will only give it's worth in mid level currecny drop amounts. I hope I've explained my views on this satisfactorily. |
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I have a lvl 74 witch and I would be disappointed if I had all of the best equipment in the game already.
I always felt rewarded. Currency drops don't change (Unless you use more rarity/quantity) but equipment does get better as do gems. It sounds like people did more crafting that I did. I didn't find linked items and then craft them into something better....I found items with good stats and then put the sockets and links into them which I did not find to be that difficult. Standard Forever
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" As far as i understand, your rewards are better base gear, more exp for killing the monsters, and higher tier mods that you can possibly get. I don't feel that an enemy is "richer" for lack of a better word in higher difficulties. Why should the drop more? You want to increase drop rates of alchs, fine. But in all honesty, and secs, you probably know a ton more about the actual data, but considering this league is only 3 weeks old, and I can buy any orb I want, many uniques, craft things, buy GCP whatever. Indicates to me, that the overall economy is in full force in less than month. This economy does not merely benefit top players, but also low-mid levels, in terms or rank, casuals lets say. A 5L can be purchased rather cheaply if you wish. I see absolutely no reason to increase drop rates when everything seems to be functioning perfectly well in less than month. Last edited by SL4Y3R#7487 on Oct 23, 2012, 11:53:26 PM
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Good points on the economy Slayer.
What do you think about the lack of linear progression through the different orbs. ie iscroll < pscroll < transmute < alt < etc, where some don't fit into the progression? I hear what you mean about enemies not being "richer". But other game still give you bigger currency drops for later difficulties AND better item drops AND better XP. POE only seems to give the latter two. Also with POE, gear reqs are so complex (I'm not saying its bad, it just is) that after you get something good from the beginning of Ruthless onward, it is very very hard to get an upgrade without crafting. Therefore, I don't feel rewared by "better" gear drops, because they're not. |
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