Dexterity should provide 1% all resists per 10 points.

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Islidox wrote:

You can try to tie Dexterity to the relative ineffectiveness of evasion/accuracy against other mechanics, but that's only part of the whole issue. Fixing the mechanics doesn't magically fix Dex - far from it.

You know, all you need to be able to endure is two decent hits, and you can achieve that most of the time so there's no problem in that particular defense form. Str does give you base life but it doesn't mean you don't have to invest in life nodes. Dex part of the tree is more life-heavy so it kinda evens out, it's not really a problem.

Problem is, again, in basics. The form of this game is such that most enemies are extremely slow, clumsy and very, very stupid. And game's netcode being what it is some will say it can't really be no other way until they fix it. So the only way to make enemies dangerous is by enabling them to hit hard.
So what does that mean? It means armor doesn't work well, it means some nasty combos of mods, auras and hard enemies can oneshot you if having no form of flat reduction. It means you must break resist barrier to avoid getting shotgunned to death at point blank by multiprojectile casters, and so on.

Ok, that's unfixable until desync gets fixed. But is it? What if enemies became on average 50% faster, and twice as agile (means no weird pauses between actions like in a bad kung-fu movie), but they hit half as strong (percentages arbitrary). Now, this is some guesswork but I think you'd be able to react much better to that kind of threat. If nothing then because you will be more alert, the game is currently a slogfest punctuated by nasty encounters with multiple aura-enchanted bosses or such, it's easy to get lulled, if you've seen some high level streamer death videos you'll see an expression of utter boredom replaced by shock, then disbelief.

The problem is also in game having too many variables currently, they kept adding them but they left the base mechanics untouched since early closed beta and now it can't really handle all this stuff. And now we got more and more uniques that even blatantly break that same basic mechanics, it's just bad all the way.

Well, we'll see what v1.0 brings.

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Nephalim wrote:

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Why in the seven hells would you have 363 des as a marauder? That's your own damned fault that you've wasted points, not the game.

In response to something in the OP: as a Melee character I rely a lot on my high accuracy rating, which is greatly helped by having well over 300 dex. I don't take RT because contrary to most of this game I also want to crit.

I didnt waste any points in +dex passives that did not have an attached bonus like 8-12 ias.
Did you ever think dex can be gained from gear as well? That is a very condescending and know it all attitude about gear affixes and builds.

Ok, so it is not your skilltree that suxx you just use the wrong gear. Different story but still your own fault!

Quite a few people have suggested here that Dexterity provide a bonus to resistance.

I have also noticed someone posted something along the lines:

"Evasion is about evading attacks and damage".

Therefore, instead of having Dexterity grant a bonus to resistance, why not just make it more like Phase Acrobatics...which we already have? Let Dexterity passively increase your chance to dodge projectile spells (A fireball would essentially pierce you without hurting you), and something like Ice Nova would do no damage to you if you dodge?

Evasion is about dodging, not actually resisting.

On the note of Evasion needing more life:

I know some will argue that evasion is much weaker than life/armor builds because it only takes one or two hits to kill them. In order to make evasion builds more viable, why not use a variant of the Diamond Potion? (If I recall correctly). A keystone that makes attacks and spells that would normally hit you have to check their hit again, possibly and most likely, at an increased chance to actually it? Instead of applying your full evasion chance to that attack, it only takes a portion of it?

Also, evasion could act like armor, where if you evade an attack it doesn't mean it doesn't still cut you. Attacks could be reduced just like armor. It would make evasion more viable since your evasion rating dodges most attacks, and the ones you do take aren't totally disastrous to your health.

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Natharias wrote:

Also, evasion could act like armor, where if you evade an attack it doesn't mean it doesn't still cut you. Attacks could be reduced just like armor. It would make evasion more viable since your evasion rating dodges most attacks, and the ones you do take aren't totally disastrous to your health.

That's exactly the line of thinking behind that 'defensive roll' suggestion of mine. If you got good enough reflexes, even if you got no room to evade the blow you can still cushion it a bit by going along with it, making hits lighter and cuts less deep.
And that additional mechanics should probably work in pure dex armor only, no way you can do that shit while encumbered even a bit (I guess energy shield is some sort of kinetic barrier that also restricts your movements a little).

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Wooser69 wrote:

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T_Reich wrote:

1% all res for 5 poins?

So, taking a +30 Dex node will result in 6% all res, just like certain other type of node.

This is a crazy bad idea and it shall never be.

Like I said, 30 int gives 6% ES and mana to boot. And ES nodes aren't exactly given out like candy either.

Though after seeing the responses here... 1% per 10 points wouldn't be useless either. A little lacking but not useless.

6% ES is useless unless you stack ES on items.

Likewise, +6% eva is useless you stack evasion AND avoid IR. As it should be.

One thing i would agree on - the accuracy bonus on dexterity oughta be higher, since its usefullnes per point invested is currently less than either +mana or +hp from other stats.

Currently one cannot stack Dex and expect to have no problems with % hit chance in endgame, whic is kinda disappointing.

But I still consider the suggestion of +% res from Dex a wrong, wrong idea.

Each 5 points of dexterity should give +1% chance to global crit chance.
Each 10 points should also give +1% to global crit multiplier.


So 200 dex points would do what the assassination notable near the shadow does.

There we go, dexterity in now more useful.

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raics wrote:

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Islidox wrote:

You can try to tie Dexterity to the relative ineffectiveness of evasion/accuracy against other mechanics, but that's only part of the whole issue. Fixing the mechanics doesn't magically fix Dex - far from it.

You know, all you need to be able to endure is two decent hits, and you can achieve that most of the time so there's no problem in that particular defense form. Str does give you base life but it doesn't mean you don't have to invest in life nodes. Dex part of the tree is more life-heavy so it kinda evens out, it's not really a problem.

This makes me believe you've never played evasion characters. Evasion-ranged, yes, as you're supposed to kite. Evasion-melee? You'll need to survive more than 2 hits to be effective in low-level maps.

Also, why should the Dex-side of tree need to focus more into the life nodes, wasting precious skill points, and being on par or inferior in terms of actual life? Str-based characters do need to invest in life nodes, but nowhere near the amount Dex-based characters need to, and that is an issue with the attribute stat. Like you said, using the passive-tree to fix problems is a lazy way out. Adding more life nodes to the tree doesn't solve the fact that Dex is inferior to both Str and Int.

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raics wrote:

Problem is, again, in basics... we'll see what v1.0 brings.

This has no bearing on the inferiority of Dex. While I acknowledge those are issues regardless, (including the addition of chaos rez, the stupidest move I've seen them do yet) that hasn't changed the main issue. The initial design of Dex was bad, and as such requires change. Gameplay mechanics aren't the issue here, which is what you're referring to.

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Islidox wrote:

This makes me believe you've never played evasion characters. Evasion-ranged, yes, as you're supposed to kite. Evasion-melee? You'll need to survive more than 2 hits to be effective in low-level maps.

Actually, if you play a true evade character you should never get surrounded, your agility should ensure you never getting into that kinda sauce. And if you build it properly you will have ondar's, you will have high block either dw or shield, you will probably have acrobatics too. If you use all that and blind you will get hit by no more then one in 20 blows on average, and if you stand in one place long enough to receive 20 blows you fail as an evade-based character. The state of the game is responsible for poor viability of that playstyle (desync, skill spam over tactical approach...).

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Islidox wrote:

This has no bearing on the inferiority of Dex. While I acknowledge those are issues regardless, (including the addition of chaos rez, the stupidest move I've seen them do yet) that hasn't changed the main issue. The initial design of Dex was bad, and as such requires change. Gameplay mechanics aren't the issue here, which is what you're referring to.

Don-t even remind me of chaos resist, sometimes I wonder what in the seven hells are they thinking.

Well, there's no defending the inferiority of dex, it is there but it isn't all that severe, I'm all for change but not insistent on resists over crit or anything, as long as it's somewhat useful. I was kinda pointing out that general feeling towards dex stems from general feeling towards evasion and that one stems from lame basic functionality clumsily masked with life abundance in dex part, the game has more glaring problems then dexterity being a bit less useful. And I did agree somewhere all those life nodes are an utter nonsense, in a no-gear scenario lithe, nimble DEX character taking heavier hits then a hulking 100% beef build? What will happen next...

Well, it's usually champion packs that pose the greatest threat backed up by whatever rare boss. High life, defense, rez, and with sometimes deadly affixes that are bad news bears for evasion characters (faster attacks, more accurate, curse-resistant). Those are really dangerous for evasion characters no matter how well built.

Here's how I've built my evasion-melee Ranger for all those interested:

IslidoxDS - This is my Dagger+Shield Ranger.
> Playstyle: Physical damage + Hatred / High Block / Evasion+Acrobatics Based
> Main skills: Doublestrike for singletarget / Reave for AoE
> Skilltree @ lvl 83 with Oak Normal quest reward: 102-point Build
> Gear:

Vital Stats:
4.1k life, 57% chance to evade, 38% chance to block, 1% HP regen

Certain mob combinations will put this character to the test, especially on maps. (Chaos Alchemists I loathe with a passion.)
___________

Regarding resists or crit, I don't agree those should added to Dex. +%life is my suggestion, and I strongly believe in as something needed over anything else. The game tends to be hard because of the damage-stacking possible on the mob's end, which mainly creates the survivability and gear issue. Regarding Dexterity, this has been something I've brought up constantly in threads related to it. While gameplay mechanics/AI need to change, this is a fundamental design issue that needs a revisit.

And while we're at it, get rid of IR completely, and rescale armor/evasion figures - everyone is happy, no more Grace+IR+Determination abuse.