Dexterity should provide 1% all resists per 10 points.

"

tmaciak wrote:

"

raics wrote:

since EVA/AR rehaul RT isn't nearly as popular as before

Hard to say, as there is no statistics.

Yup, I certainly can't provide one but that's the general vibe I'm getting lately. No screams 'get resolute ASAP!' in build advices anymore and I certainly don't promote it myself as a general tip.
Well, if you don't plan on investing anything in crit and you're in the vicinity, then sure, why not, it's certainly cheaper then dex and acc nodes and you aren't losing much. Also for heavy hitters, misses with slow weapons can be annoying and reflected crits with such can hurt.

"

raics wrote:

Thankfully, there aren't too many enemies that can oneshot you, especially since enemies have next to no chance to land a crit onto a properly build evade tank. Especially if you use enfeeble, which I admit no self-respecting warrior should ever be required to do. The way I see it, crit reduction nodes that mara has should be more prolific.

And there were suggestions of 'defensive roll' being built in into evade. It would work like this:
'Every attack that would take over 50% of your health has a chance to get halved, starting at your evade percentage at 50% up to 100% chance of defensive roll for attacks that equal 90% of your health or more'

And we could have 'flat footed' penalties that halve evasion for ranged attackers getting hit by melee monsters (makes very much sense if you ever fired a bow, might be even worse for spells, haven't tried to cast any). And we could have STR armor multiplicatively reducing move speed and attack/cast speed greatly, passive nodes not increasing its thickness (hehe) but removing said penalties (very logical), but at the same time tuning armor to give you decent protection 'out of the box'. To make melees durable you need to make ranged more fragile first and that can't be accomplished by passive tree, we need more basic mechanics.

There are so many ways to balance this game if you aren't scared to change its foundations, think differently and try new stuff.

The mechanic you are introducing to evasion is far beyond what current mechanics in PoE can display. That alone would be a keystone-worthy candidate, something like "Glancing Blows - attacks that land have a ##-##% chance to be halved in damage - armor and ES are reduced to 0". This isn't the first time that a similar idea has been proposed, but it would need some major balancing to prevent it from being the next IR (which should be gone altogether). Personally this keystone would have FAR more use than the current Acrobatics (which I think is a waste of passive points to invest into to get Phase Acrobatics).

This "flat-footed" mechanic is something I wouldn't agree with. One, most evasion-based ranged builds have far less evasion than a 1hander+shield build, on top of having no block. While this game is very exponential regarding the progression of gameplay mechanics, they still have a binary-like function. Armor provides decreasing returns as you stack it, but the movespeed penalty is -8 or negated. (str and str/int armor; str/evr armor has -4) Keeping it simple like that may be better for new players to grasp rather than trying to scale EVERYTHING.

Tangent aside, we're talking about the passive stat Dexterity, which compared to Strength and Intelligence does not provide a PRIMARY form of defense (life/ES). And this is why Dex will always be inferior to Str/Int. Evasion is considered a secondary defense like armor and resistances, while dodge, block, and movespeed are a tertiary form of defense. In order to make Dex on par with Str/Int, the stat Dex needs to provide something extra, not a mechanic change.

To that end, the logical method to making Dex competitively strong is to include a % increase to max life along with its current benefits. We already see this in form of the Ranger's new hybrid defense nodes (+% to EVR/life). This next step should be done. No longer is Dex some thing you pick up 109-160 for just for skill requirements - it would actually be very beneficial to take it for all life-based builds.

"

Why in the seven hells would you have 363 des as a marauder? That's your own damned fault that you've wasted points, not the game.

In response to something in the OP: as a Melee character I rely a lot on my high accuracy rating, which is greatly helped by having well over 300 dex. I don't take RT because contrary to most of this game I also want to crit.

I didnt waste any points in +dex passives that did not have an attached bonus like 8-12 ias.
Did you ever think dex can be gained from gear as well? That is a very condescending and know it all attitude about gear affixes and builds.

The problem with dex not only that it's bonuses are pretty useless for many builds, but also that even for builds that benefit from both evasion and accuracy, these bonuses are just too weak.
Let's call some numbers:
I have a ring with +300 accuracy. It increases my hit chance from 82% to 85%, granting 3.66% more DPS. And that equals to 150 dexterity. BTW, i have just 1200 accuracy rating
On the other side, i have 463% increased physsical damage from all sources (gems, passives, strenght). How many strength do i need to get the same 3.66% more damage? Right, 103 strength. So i need 1.5 times less strength to match damage increase from dex, despite my accuracy is ridiculously low (equal to 600 dex), and my %increased physical damage is ridiculously high (equal to 2315 strength).

I use energy shield, but i can assure you, that for player with life, who can evade, strength provides much MORE EHP (Effective HP), that dexterity.

And i dont even compare dexterity with int, int obviously is FAR better!

So, we see, that dexterity is just UNDERPOWERED stat, and that is proved fact. What is the best way to buff it? I think, by increasing its existing bonuses. For example, 9 accuracy and 1% evasion rating for 3 points of dexterity. So, at least,it will be useful in it's intended way. And if it still would be underpowered, then, perhaps, change dexterity bonuses completely.

"

Islidox wrote:

To that end, the logical method to making Dex competitively strong is to include a % increase to max life along with its current benefits. We already see this in form of the Ranger's new hybrid defense nodes (+% to EVR/life). This next step should be done. No longer is Dex some thing you pick up 109-160 for just for skill requirements - it would actually be very beneficial to take it for all life-based builds.

Can't say I agree, that's the lazy way out, not everything about the game can be fixed by life/damage balance. Yo dog, we heard you like ES way more then life itself? We give you Kaom's. Kaom's overpowered? Let's introduce more flat life nodes and less percentages.
That stuff is an enchanted circle and it leads nowhere, to get out of it you have to make a cut somewhere, if you dare, that is.

Basic mechanics are the way to go to balance melee/ranged, str/int/dex and other more severe discrepancies, if your christmas tree is askew you don't straighten the top but check the base. You fix basic behavior by tweaking basic mechanics, not with OP items, not by hotfix uniques and not half-assed passive tree rebalances.

You can try to tie Dexterity to the relative ineffectiveness of evasion/accuracy against other mechanics, but that's only part of the whole issue. Fixing the mechanics doesn't magically fix Dex - far from it.

You have to compare the benefits of Dex to the benefits of Str and Int and the applicability. The RT, US, and now IR keystones invalidate the bonuses granted by Dex, which already renders Dex useless to a good portion of builds. However, the underlying issue is that it doesn't provide a form of PRIMARY DEFENSE, i.e. life or ES. This is the major reason why Dex builds suffer so much because Dex doesn't offer anything in return for pure survivability. Evasion as we all know is not a fail-safe measure; you will get hit. It's the player's responsibility to ensure that their character has enough life to survive the hits that eat up the evasion-entropy. However, Dex does nothing to add to a player's ability to survive once a hit lands. And that, survivability, is my main concern and what I'm trying to address as Dex's main weakness as an attribute stat.

Let's compare the benefits:

Strength:
- Life = primary defense
- Melee physical damage = offense

Intelligence:
- Mana = resource
- ES = primary defense

Dexterity:
- Accuracy Rating = offense
- Evasion = secondary defense

Clearly Dex is plagued by 2 issues:
1. Does not provide a form of primary defense
2. The benefits Dex provides are easily negated by gameplay mechanics

Going Dex-heavy is a choice, but players shouldn't be penalized for making such a choice with less survivable builds given how this game is set up.

Not bad ideas. I wouldn't mind the resists or spell dodge benefits. Really don't think adding life for having Dex fits in with the nature of dexterity. How about giving block chance? Never tried to see if items like the Anvil would give block chance to a bow wielder, but there is no reason somebody with a bow or other two-hander wouldn't be able to block with it. Even fits in with how someone with a lot of agility (dexterity) would use everything he could to avoid taking the full brunt of a blow.

i see your point but NO SENSE at all about dexterity giving you Resistances since the things have a concept and they are there for a reason, in the concept higher amount of Dexterity should gives more attack speed or higher chance to do a critical strike with weapons.

i agree on +dex giving a small % crit chance or move/attack/cast speed, but res makes no sense