Why POE games economy will fail.

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WarlordClaw wrote:

Rish people don't use orbs for crafting becasue if they used orbs for crafting they wouldn't be rich anymore. People who have money in real life don't have it becasue they pissed it down a toilet.

What I meant by rich is not necessarily how much currency you have in the bank, but how efficient you are at farming (property value in other words). If you use up all your currency, but still have a character that farms more efficiently than 99.9% of people, then you're still rich in my book.

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Better Gear don't nessecarly give you better drops, IIR IIQ will give u better drops that gear isnt better or worst. That has everything to do with build and nothing to do about gear.

IIR and IIQ are part of what I consider having better gear. Build is an integral part, but not nearly as much as gear in this game, especially since most top builds have been established and are widely used. A sporker gets ahead by getting more MF since getting better DPS from gear is difficult for spellcasters, and sporkers don't need health to stay alive. Other casters will still get MF (instead of damage gear) but get more survivability gear. Attack builds will get damage and survivability items instead of MF. All of these increase efficiency (though currently not in an equal manner).

Gear in PoE scales with very little diminishing returns for a very extended period. And due to the RNG nature of crafting in PoE, those with the best gear and the willingness to tradespam/maintain forum threads begin to monopolize the top orbs, because they are the only ones "allowed" to use them. By "allowed" I mean that buying gear from other players isn't much more efficient for improving their character than crafting their own gear. For example:

Your axe is 300 DPS. There are lots of 300-350 DPS axes you can buy for an exalted, So you trade your exalted orb instead of using it.

Your axe is 400 DPS. There are very few axes available beyond that DPS, and they go for well over 40 exalted orbs. So you try to craft an axe instead.

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Varana wrote:

It's as Scrotie said a while back. We need hugely increased orb drops.

I never said "hugely," and lowering rare gear droprates is just as important to my proposal as the increasing orb droprates. Why? Because...

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Veracocha wrote:

You should know that Path of Exile is a hardcore Action Role Playing Game. And increasing orb drops could potentially make it less hardcore. Also you forget the fact that Wraeclast is a grim-dark harsh continent that has a lot of challenges and that includes orb drops. Wraeclast would not be Wraeclast with increased orb drops.

Verachoca essentially has the right idea, he's just not applying it correctly. The game should be hard, and changes which simply make the game easier don't fit. But it is possible to give and simultaneously take, leaving the final outcome no easier than before, perhaps harder. Which is what I was actually suggesting.

I don't want the game easier. I just want players to find more orbs, and in exchange find less rare items, pushing them harder to use those orbs and giving them less items to trade away.

If people find more orbs, top end items will be easier created. Hence becoming less rare and cheaper as well. So you are back to square 1.

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Reinhart wrote:

If people find more orbs, top end items will be easier created. Hence becoming less rare and cheaper as well. So you are back to square 1.

Not quite. Yes, more orbs means more top end items created; however, I'm talking about reducing the natural drop rate of items more than enough to compensate. The end result should be less rare items, but (slightly) more crafting control over what rare items you get.

Here's a slightly exaggerated example of what I'm getting at:

Let's say that an Acrobatics archer on farms for several hours under the current system and finds:

• 91 rare weapons, 7 of which are bows
• 42 rare chests, 7 of which are pure Evasion
• 42 rare helms, 7 of which are pure Evasion
• 42 rare gloves, 7 of which are pure Evasion
• 42 rare boots, 7 of which are pure Evasion
• 7 rare rings
• 7 rare amulets
• 7 rare belts
• 7 rare quivers
• X Orbs of Alchemy

What I'm imagining is that instead, farming the same amount of time, he finds:

• 65 rare weapons, 5 of which are bows
• 30 rare chests, 5 of which are pure Evasion
• 30 rare helms, 5 of which are pure Evasion
• 30 rare gloves, 5 of which are pure Evasion
• 30 rare boots, 5 of which are pure Evasion
• 5 rare rings
• 5 rare amulets
• 5 rare belts
• 5 rare quivers
• X+15 Orbs of Alchemy

This character could then use the excess 15 Alchs to make 2 rare bows and 2 of each relevant type of pure Evasion gear, maybe some jewelery, end up with about the same amount of relevant rares found. Or, he could apply the 15 Alchs specifically to the gear most in need of upgrade (added flexibility). However, he's found 82 less rares (from 287 to 205, 29% less), and thus would have far less tradeable rares as a result; even if he used the extra Alchs, it's 67 less rares.

In short: same amount of targeted loot finding, but less non-targeted loot finding; therefore, more incentive to craft and better self-found experience, but less stashing items for putting in your shop thread and thus less emphasis on trade chat on shop indexers for progression.

This is a hardcore ARPG. To maintain this, I say GGG half the current drop rates of orbs to increase the hardcoreness of POE. Also GGG must always keep in mind that the economy is the must important aspect of POE and that any decision that may compromise the economy can not be taken. The economy is extremely vital to the longevity and fun factor of this game for the majority of the game's population, along with the extremely hardcore aspects of POE. I also think that fusing orbs should now add a chance to destroy the item on use (something like 10% to increase the rarity of top end items dramatically and have a sink for items).

TLDR: The economy at all cost.

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evilcloud5 wrote:

This is a hardcore ARPG. To maintain this, I say GGG half the current drop rates of orbs to increase the hardcoreness of POE. Also GGG must always keep in mind that the economy is the must important aspect of POE and that any decision that may compromise the economy can not be taken. The economy is extremely vital to the longevity and fun factor of this game for the majority of the game's population, along with the extremely hardcore aspects of POE. I also think that fusing orbs should now add a chance to destroy the item on use (something like 10% to increase the rarity of top end items dramatically and have a sink for items).

TLDR: The economy at all cost.

Yea sounds fantastic, the economy being the most important thing for d3 really worked out great as well, I mean people dont want to find there own shit, they would rather buy or trade for it, who wants to play a loot game and actually craft or find there own loot? Thats crazy talk, hardcore over fun all day long, I really see this game doing great and being super successful.

I don't like the current RNG range it must be a huge range at some point obviously... I do like RNG or at least the idea of it.... Is it possible the devs looked at top performing layers and based the range of RNG on those players? I mean people that spend 12 hours a day 7 days a week playing are going to accumulate wealth.... and i think that's fair and fine. One casual players or even moderate players it seems to be overly difficult to get anything more than a 3 link and I've even had weird experiences with those where I've spent many orbs of fusing to just get a 3L... I don't know if it's just me but the higher I get in level the more difficult it seems to get the currency for fusing and it actually seems like the fusings at higher lvls are 10x more difficult to get then at lower lvls.... now I don't mind farming.... but I'd rather not farm for 2 - 3 months just for orbs of fusing just to get one of my grey 5 or 6 slot a slight chance of actually getting fully linked. I've had a few six link items drop over the last week and I just look at them in my inventory thinking....it would be a waste to even attempt to use these 4 or 5 orbs to try to link them....I just KNOW I have no chance.

I'm not looking for easy mode but as I have suggested before maybe being able to trade in 10 - 20 orbs of fusing for one guaranteed link with no chance of loss might be good. In this way you would still be getting probably 20 - 40 orbs out of the system....spending hundreds just sort of sucks the fun out of it. Yeah could get lucky I suppose but is getting a 5 or 6 L item supposed to be like hitting the lottery at lvls 60+? I just think it's an unneeded agitation for players. I mean hell... I spent about 20 just to get a 3L on 4 slot item probably ilvl 40 - 50 or so...I'm also a total self found soloist... maybe that makes the difference. Would love to have self found no trade no grouping perm leagues then maybe it would be viable to lower the range of the RNG? ..... just some of my wandering thoughts on the matter.


EDIT: reading the two posts above sort of shows a need for separate leagues... how difficult would it really be to implement? shut off trades, shut off groups, (or at least trades) and let people pick.... want to be part of an economy or play it like a single player game. I know the argument about it being like a single player game... why are you playing this it's an online multiplayer game. Well these games always get more development they tend to be better quality and for some people (not me) they get to chat with other players, talk about the game, get suggestions real time etc... It's just preference. I don't think something like I suggested here would vitally change the game unless most players decided to go with this option.... but then wouldn't that just show what is really popular?... it would be interesting to have a real community pol on the matter and the whole RNG thing.

I think the currency economy works good in the end-game but.. early on I think it should be easier to craft your equipment. A quick idea I came up with that is similar to what I think d3 is doing is.....

You talk to an NPC then with a trans orb/alch orb + ilvl 66 or lower item you are allowed to choose one mod for the item to have the rest of the mods will be random like normal.

With that gearing your character early on before maps will be a lot easier.

I think a lot of people who see these threads think the people are casuals or something and because they have so much currency and THEY can craft, that crafting isn't broken.

I have well over 2k hours in this game and have found 1 eternal, 2 exalts, and maybe 3 divines. The only money i make is from the hundred of jewelers i get from 6 sockets. The most expensive item i have ever found is a le heup which is 1 exalt. I have used hundreds of chances trying to get a koams or lioneyes, before they made it more difficult, to no avail, and many hundreds of fuses and never even got a 5l yet. So explain how the hell i'm supposed to craft anything? Or afford anything? I am at the point where i don't craft AT ALL and just save to eventually maybe buy something.

I'm not saying make it raining exalts from the sky, but either make crafting better to suit the investment, or make it cheaper. Right now the only logical reason to craft is because you have hundreds of exalts and you want the best item possible, unless you are in a race.