CI and Low Life -- totally inconsistent, Please rethink this!!!!

FACT: People ran low life builds before Shavronnes

FACT: Many many more people run CI builds. You don't need amazing gear for CI to work. How many people start off as CI, as compared to start off as low life? In a fresh economy, CI is a much easier choice.

FACT: You don't need Dream Fragments for either build.

FACT: There SHOULD be goals to achieve in this game. Whether this be level, gear, DPS, defense, build, whatever.

Azmodael, saying that certain items heavily favors rich and experienced players = obviously. It's an aRPG for crying out loud. Of course it does.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

FACT: People ran low life builds before Shavronnes

FACT: Many many more people run CI builds. You don't need amazing gear for CI to work. How many people start off as CI, as compared to start off as low life? In a fresh economy, CI is a much easier choice.

FACT: You don't need Dream Fragments for either build.

FACT: There SHOULD be goals to achieve in this game. Whether this be level, gear, DPS, defense, build, whatever.

Azmodael, saying that certain items heavily favors rich and experienced players = obviously. It's an aRPG for crying out loud. Of course it does.

FACT: Everything you posted is just your opinion or based on your own limited experience and you offer no empirical data to substantiate a trend or condition regarding anything you claim.

I could just as easily have said...

FACT: Many more CI's are abandoning their CI build in favor of a high HP or low life build with Shavronne's every week, than are creating new viable CI builds.

But like you I would have no way of backing up such a claim :P

I understand the belief and emotion that drives them but can you tell I hate post like this? ...lol

I, for one, just abandoned my CI build in favor of a high HP build. The build was a Freezing Pulse caster. The reason I left it behind is because of status ailments being on me 50% of the time, with chilled being the biggest culprit. I probably wouldn't run CI again unless I was running dual totems or had enough DPS to one shot everything on the screen.

Those claims are common knowledge.

People did run low life builds before shavronne

More people do run CI.

You don't need DF

There should be goals to achieve.

^ Those are all facts......

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Pavshaus wrote:

FACT: Everything you posted is just your opinion or based on your own limited experience and you offer no empirical data to substantiate a trend or condition regarding anything you claim.

I could just as easily have said...

FACT: Many more CI's are abandoning their CI build in favor of a high HP or low life build with Shavronne's every week, than are creating new viable CI builds.

But like you I would have no way of backing up such a claim :P

I understand the belief and emotion that drives them but can you tell I hate post like this? ...lol

FACT: Slayers "limited experience" as you call it, is a hell of a lot more than yours.
FACT: Pretty much everything you've said is based on YOUR opinion, rather than facts.
FACT: It doesn't matter whether or not you like a post.

End of the line, When you're dealing with ppl who "may" know a lot more than you... rather than try to argue... try to learn something... otherwise the community won't bother listening to you either... and that's a FACT.

Good luck OP with whatever your goals "truly" are.

"

There should be goals to achieve.

While I agree with this statement, it is actually an opinion.

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Josephoenix wrote:

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Pavshaus wrote:

FACT: Everything you posted is just your opinion or based on your own limited experience and you offer no empirical data to substantiate a trend or condition regarding anything you claim.

I could just as easily have said...

FACT: Many more CI's are abandoning their CI build in favor of a high HP or low life build with Shavronne's every week, than are creating new viable CI builds.

But like you I would have no way of backing up such a claim :P

I understand the belief and emotion that drives them but can you tell I hate post like this? ...lol

FACT: Slayers "limited experience" as you call it, is a hell of a lot more than yours.
FACT: Pretty much everything you've said is based on YOUR opinion, rather than facts.
FACT: It doesn't matter whether or not you like a post.

End of the line, When you're dealing with ppl who "may" know a lot more than you... rather than try to argue... try to learn something... otherwise the community won't bother listening to you either... and that's a FACT.

Good luck OP with whatever your goals "truly" are.

Granted I may be completely wrong but its interesting to me how there so much defensiveness which I feel goes into a post like this. To the extent however that you have elected to respond let's recap a few things.

The BIG difference between my post and Slayers is I never claimed to espouse facts. I was in fact stating my opinion that more balance for CI builds is needed and that there are what I perceive to be inconsistencies with it. I also engaged in argument based on the current status of certain things because it really does not matter how things were in the past prior to the release of certain patches or item releases which may have influenced positively or negatively any build or skill set or similarly affected the balance between builds.

It's perfectly okay to have a differing opinion and to argue any point a right which I would hope you would also extend to myself and others. What I have expressed is that I tend to take chagrin to any postings which purport to exert facts with no data to back them up. My reference to "limited experience" is in regards to a simple premise...the experience of any single player or their perceptions based on their own encounters is not as significant as the experience of societal whole which is of course much greater. I do not claim to know what that greater societal experience is in this or any other case for that matter but I would suggest it would likely be exemplified by the weight of the posts as determined both by number and content. I do believe it is erroneous if not arrogant to assume otherwise but thats just how I see it and I suppose everyone\anyone is free to see it otherwise. As to it not mattering whether I\you like a post or not it is odd to me that you do not adhere to your own assumptions in this regards.

Lastly I have no idea what you or Slayer may or may not know it really does not matter for as I have said you both have perfect right to state your opinions but let's keep it real for at the end of the day all anyone can express is their opinion absent some relevant, real and hard evidence\data.

My goals are as I have stated.. to try to encourage the Devs to rethink certain things which I believe would improve the game experience for myself and most likely for others. That said I encourage you, Slayer or anyone to respond to anything I post at any time but I ask that you please do so argumentatively. I believe that there is as you say something to learn from players such as yourself and Slayer who have more experience and do have something to very meaningful to offer.. but absent presenting your points in a meaningful and argumentative fashion it is hard to learn from you. Just coming in and saying something is fact or responding out of emotion really does not help us much.

So lets just make CI grant low life status! This will totally devalue Shavronnes and make sure everyone switches to CI builds since you could have all the upsides of low life bonuses while not dealing with the horribly low light radius! This would be a great balance decision! While we are at it lets just make CI change status effect rolls to roll against max ES rather than HP so CI is immune to stun/freeze/shock too! That way everyone can just play CI and be super happy about not ever being stunned, frozen, or shocked while also being immune to chaos damage and dealing infinite damage with PA. Sounds legit! Seriously, why have other options? Just make CI hands down better than everything else.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

FACT: People ran low life builds before Shavronnes

FACT: Many many more people run CI builds. You don't need amazing gear for CI to work. How many people start off as CI, as compared to start off as low life? In a fresh economy, CI is a much easier choice.

FACT: You don't need Dream Fragments for either build.

FACT: There SHOULD be goals to achieve in this game. Whether this be level, gear, DPS, defense, build, whatever.

Azmodael, saying that certain items heavily favors rich and experienced players = obviously. It's an aRPG for crying out loud. Of course it does.

FACT: you're an idiot if you believe even half of the shit you just posted. also....saying "FACT" does not make it a fact, it just makes you look stupid.

lol

1) running low life without shavronnes is retarded. i assume you play in default league (LOLLL). in hardcore it would be suicide unless you just never ever ever fought against chaos opponents.

(also, who is "people." .... "people" ran low life before shavronne lol...."people." you mean like maybe 1 - 3 "people" on the whole server, in the default league, who did it as a curiosity?

2) its not that much cheaper to run CI vs low life. a really nice 5L ES chest is not going to be substantially cheaper than a shavronne

3) dream fragments is cheap and amazingly good and fixes a glaring survivability problem. not running it would be incredibly moronic.

4) i dont even understand your last point. are you on drugs?

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

Full life is not inherently risky, it's just challenging to maintain in most cases. So it gets less bonuses.

I don't follow this logic. If something is extremely challenging to maintain, why does it get less bonuses?

Something which is merely somewhat challenging, but not at all dangerous, should have less bonuses than something that is somewhat challenging, but also inherently very dangerous.

lol what?

can you please explain in detail what leads you to believe that a well developed low life build is "inherently very dangerous" vs a CI build that is "not at all dangerous?"

it's comments like this that lead people to assume that the people at GGG do not play their own game.

low life = you take some damage per second, have a slightly lower overall ES pool, and reduced light radius.

sure, those are all bad features, but it's not something that takes a build to the "inherently very dangerous" level....

when was the last time Dominion felt any danger? oh wait, he just stands around and right clicks "cast totem"

yes, very dangerous....

lol.