CI and Low Life -- totally inconsistent, Please rethink this!!!!

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SL4Y3R wrote:

High ES on gear, and lots of ES nodes :P

It is possible, it just takes some nice gear. 7-8k is much more easily attainable for CI players.

At least for my Shadow many of those ES plus % nodes are not so easily reached.. your talking about a level 80 (end game) option I am guessing.. which means you have a lot of not well protected levels to do along the way with significantly less ES (again without god like gear)in order to afford yourself some end game protection. So if ES was to rely solely on having a large ES pool are we saying that CI should only be chosen as an endgame option or for those who are either lucky enough to find it or can afford crazy high ES gear?

If it's to be a viable part of the game I don't think CI should be restricted to end game play and I am sure that's not what we are all saying. This is why it would be difficult to do away with leech for it in my opinion. The only way my shadow survives is being able to leech back enough ES to somewhat balance against the attacks I suffer. Don't get me wrong there is still plenty of escaping at times because mobs can deal crazy simultaneous crits to you without any warning of course.

Shadows are designed to be more offensive in nature. No matter what, you will have less ES than both witches and Templars. That being said, yes, currently CI is more of an end game node. By this, I mean lvl 45-50+ posssibly even 60. This is unfortunate, and has been a major complaint for quite some time.

You would be able to survive, you would just have to leave battle for a couple seconds. This is the way CI used to be played. It was much more offensive and fun as well. You didn't lose a gem slot because of it.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

You would be able to survive, you would just have to leave battle for a couple seconds. This is the way CI used to be played. It was much more offensive and fun as well. You didn't lose a gem slot because of it.

It was much more offensive that you had to run away from battle regularly and could get easily stunlocked? Sounds like redacted history to me.

CI is a perfectly viable midgame spec. I switched at 40 or so on my main (before the chaos damage areas of a2 cruel) as did my teammate at the time, and this was a couple days into the new ob ladder, when good gear was nonexistant and those extra es nodes behind CI didnt exist. The old school hit and run CI playstyle works well throughout most of the main campaign.

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

You would be able to survive, you would just have to leave battle for a couple seconds. This is the way CI used to be played. It was much more offensive and fun as well. You didn't lose a gem slot because of it.

It was much more offensive that you had to run away from battle regularly and could get easily stunlocked? Sounds like redacted history to me.

You stacked run, cast, damage and es, then counted on kiting well and making small retreats to regen, or dpsing down inescapable enemies before they overwhelmed your massive es globe. I suppose the build could have been played defensively, but it was generally designed with constant offense in mind and thats also my memory of how i and others played it back then.

Whether or not the current CI (and overall metagame surrounding it) is superior or inferior to the old CI is a matter of opinion, though i will say that CI builds now feel much more similar to life builds than they did in mid cb.

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KoTao wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

You would be able to survive, you would just have to leave battle for a couple seconds. This is the way CI used to be played. It was much more offensive and fun as well. You didn't lose a gem slot because of it.

It was much more offensive that you had to run away from battle regularly and could get easily stunlocked? Sounds like redacted history to me.

You stacked run, cast, damage and es, then counted on kiting well and making small retreats to regen, or dpsing down inescapable enemies before they overwhelmed your massive es globe. I suppose the build could have been played defensively, but it was generally designed with constant offense in mind and thats also my memory of how i and others played it back then.

Whether or not the current CI (and overall metagame surrounding it) is superior or inferior to the old CI is a matter of opinion, though i will say that CI builds now feel much more similar to life builds than they did in mid cb.

I would say hit and run and kite is inherently defensive. Whereas push forward and keep pushing is inherently offensive. The fact that you're constantly doing damage is not really relevant in most ARPGs, where there are no dedicated healer and pure support classes (that's MMO concept) and every class is supposed to do constant damage to enemies.

So you would state that glass cannon builds are defensive, while tanky builds are offensive?

This seems backwards.

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SL4Y3R wrote:

So you would state that glass cannon builds are defensive, while tanky builds are offensive?

This seems backwards.

Which glass cannon builds don't kite or hit and run? You're not going to be leaping into the middle of a bunch of enemies with a glass cannon build.

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

So you would state that glass cannon builds are defensive, while tanky builds are offensive?

This seems backwards.

Which glass cannon builds don't kite or hit and run? You're not going to be leaping into the middle of a bunch of enemies with a glass cannon build.

And you won't be doing much dmg either.


Just a quick question, did you ever play CI in CB?

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SL4Y3R wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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SL4Y3R wrote:

So you would state that glass cannon builds are defensive, while tanky builds are offensive?

This seems backwards.

Which glass cannon builds don't kite or hit and run? You're not going to be leaping into the middle of a bunch of enemies with a glass cannon build.

And you won't be doing much dmg either.


Just a quick question, did you ever play CI in CB?

I had a different account in CB where I admittedly played all life-based builds. But there were tons of CIs in CB since there was much more chaos damage, so it's no stretch to say I played with a ton of CIs.

None of them were what I would consider extremely offensive builds simply for the fact that they had to either run and hide in a corner, or run around like a monkey until their ES regenned. I would not consider either tactic 'offensive.' Maybe your definition varies from mine.