The REAL truth exposed!! (Brought to you by a player in top 10)

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SilasOfBorg wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

So don't have the level cap at 100 if it isn't "intended" for players to try to reach it. You should know that if you set a level cap, that players will try to reach the level cap. This is game design 101.

This I can agree with. Human nature, etc.

what about old-school arcade games where you could never win, but your score kept going up and up... one figures eventually it would cap (or error out due to too long of an integer)... yet no one says they should have lowered the cap...

edit: actually ggg should remove the level cap entirely... or 999 or something... while progressing the current xp pattern and giving no special support... make the limit beyond all human comprehension... destroy the level cap concept....

The level cap is there so that your character keeps moving forward. It's supposed to take a long time. Although I do agree that having it be 999 would probably work much better. This way, people might actually get why its so hard to reach.

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PlaceholderText wrote:

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SilasOfBorg wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

So don't have the level cap at 100 if it isn't "intended" for players to try to reach it. You should know that if you set a level cap, that players will try to reach the level cap. This is game design 101.

This I can agree with. Human nature, etc.

what about old-school arcade games where you could never win, but your score kept going up and up... one figures eventually it would cap (or error out due to too long of an integer)... yet no one says they should have lowered the cap...

Because an RPG is not an arcade game. Arcade games are designed to be played in one sitting and to test your individual skills as a player. An RPG is designed to build up your character until it's the best it can be within the confines of the game. Apples and oranges.

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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heyyous wrote:

So really be quite about not being able to hit a higher level because it isn't intended yet.

/Thread.

So don't have the level cap at 100 if it isn't "intended" for players to try to reach it. You should know that if you set a level cap, that players will try to reach the level cap. This is game design 101.

And if you restrict getting to the level cap only to the super rich, your game will come under fire as p2w. It is what it is.

The restriction is only that the super-rich will reach lvl cap first (until further content is added which you continue to completely ignore!). Not that it cant be done. And since the super-rich are typically the best most dedicated players it makes total sense...unless some people start to rmt in which case it all falls to pieces and the forums explode.

And yes, add more levels and this time make them impossible to get.

The best part is how in most other games 98-99 is about the same amount of experience as 1-98.

I can't wait till these jokers hit 98 and realize how utterly impossible 99 is until the content is out.

Just because something is possible doesn't mean you should do it. =D

I only read through to page 16 or so, but I wanted to chime in.

I really think GGG has/will have a good solution for us and my hope is it won't take months to see the light of day. Perhaps even .11 will include some sort of changes that help us with the late game RNG battles a lot of us are experiencing.

Let me give some information about myself: Avid gamer of age 27, been gaming since I was 5, Diablo or Baldur's Gate was probably my first real computer game.

I have an 81 Templar, 64 Ranger, 57 Witch, 49 Marauder, 42 Marauder, and a slew of characters in the 20s.

I think the problem with the end-game is very complex, and I think there are a multitude of issues. I believe that a lot of this disagreement we see in every one of these threads is largely evidence that the issue is a multitude of things, with many solutions and opinions being offered.

The reason so many are getting frustrated, at least this is what I see, is that all of our long term goals are extremely reliant on luck. If you want to exp, you need a lot of luck to find the maps you want. I just found my first 73 map the other day, and I can tell you that for my friend and I to even do 68-71 is completely draining our currency. We are currently holding off on mapping while we collect more chisels and such. So back to the 68 zones it is! Luckily the game was just patched.

Anyways, I'll just list what I perceive to be the "main" goals that most people have:

1. Continue to level (presumably to 100 eventually)
2. 6 Linking your gear. (Eventually, maybe 6 linking your alternate characters)
3. Crafting/trading for end game gear.
4. 20%ing all of your gems. (This one is debatable but I added it here because of the potentially large sum of currency this would take. Also, there's no reason to not do this if the other goals had been met.)

Every single one of these goals is reliant on luck. Sure, over time, we may eventually all have these things... but the fact that they are all random means that on a bad day, I play for hours and literally make no progress at all. I find some orbs, burn them up in fusings or whatever, and end up broke and closer to dying (in real life.) Like many others have stated, this is not fun.

To make matters worse, these goals are all competing with one another. If you want to trade your currency for GCPs to max out skills, great, this is probably the most reliable goal on my llist. But guess what? Since you're using your currency for this goal, you won't be mapping (at least not in the upper levels) and you won't be 6 linking or crafting much. Take any of these goals and the story is the same - they are exclusive.

I didn't even add in the fact that you might want to roll a new character. Oh, you say you want to 4 link your new characters bow? If you are unlucky, it might take 20-40 fusings! Looks like you won't be mapping or 6 linking on your main while you play this new character.

I'll stop here. I played Diablo 2 hardcore for years, literally. I never really had the greatest end-game gear of all time, but I had fun. I had a lot of fun. And guess what? When my main character was basically maxed out, I didn't quit. Seriously! I still played the game, made new characters, hunted for D clones, even just walked Act 5 on my cracked out sorceresses for fun!

I believe that if people had an easier time with orbs and maps, I don't think they would "finish everything" and get all bored like some people seem to think. I know I wouldn't. I'd just make new characters!

Don't chisel maps below 70 - from the economic standpoint you are blowing away your currency on something that will not get you any money in return. Gear below lvl 70 does not sell at all. Soon gear below lvl 74 will not sell at all because of the act III zone level upgrade.

In concern of your way of thinking about RMT i will compare it to drug dealing. It's similar in some parts. Imagine a guy smoking pot - police (GM) arrest him and put him to death (perm ban). Meanwhile the drug dealer (RMT) advertises his product via mail to you, stands on your yard yelling and has a shop with big shiny logo down the street just beside the favorite donuts shop that most policeman attend. The guy smoking pot did not ruin your neighborhood especially if he was hiding with it. It's the RMT site that's ruining the game, not a RMT player and its just 1 site, not a whole bunch of them. Why not try to take it down? Without it you can balance your game undisturbed, however you like.

About the whole lvl 100 thing, I can just smirk a bit. Most likely 100 is the permanent level cap. Devs have room for 40 levels of content. Act III was 61-64 before. Imagine how much possibilities that gives. Just wait for new content.

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Rugs wrote:

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UnderOmerta wrote:

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heyyous wrote:

So really be quite about not being able to hit a higher level because it isn't intended yet.

/Thread.

So don't have the level cap at 100 if it isn't "intended" for players to try to reach it. You should know that if you set a level cap, that players will try to reach the level cap. This is game design 101.

And if you restrict getting to the level cap only to the super rich, your game will come under fire as p2w. It is what it is.

The restriction is only that the super-rich will reach lvl cap first (until further content is added which you continue to completely ignore!). Not that it cant be done. And since the super-rich are typically the best most dedicated players it makes total sense...unless some people start to rmt in which case it all falls to pieces and the forums explode.

And yes, add more levels and this time make them impossible to get.

I'm not ignoring the fact that there will be additional content. I'm pointing out the inadequacies of the endgame RIGHT NOW. Right Now is the game that people are playing. Right Now's flaws are what make people leave the game. Right Now's problems are not currently being addressed.

The game's endgame is practically pay to play, and subsequently, potentially pay to win. If you don't see that as a problem, that's fine. Many players, perhaps even most of the higher level players, do.

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ggnorekthx wrote:

Anyways, I'll just list what I perceive to be the "main" goals that most people have:

1. Continue to level (presumably to 100 eventually)
2. 6 Linking your gear. (Eventually, maybe 6 linking your alternate characters)
3. Crafting/trading for end game gear.
4. 20%ing all of your gems. (This one is debatable but I added it here because of the potentially large sum of currency this would take. Also, there's no reason to not do this if the other goals had been met.)

Items 2-4 are currency based but item 1 is not. Leveling to 100 does not compete with the other 3 goals.

Anyway, I think it's a good thing that meaningful goals compete with each other. If the game is too one-dimensional then it is easier to lose interest. Allowing different players to choose different objectives is a good thing.

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

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ggnorekthx wrote:

Anyways, I'll just list what I perceive to be the "main" goals that most people have:

1. Continue to level (presumably to 100 eventually)
2. 6 Linking your gear. (Eventually, maybe 6 linking your alternate characters)
3. Crafting/trading for end game gear.
4. 20%ing all of your gems. (This one is debatable but I added it here because of the potentially large sum of currency this would take. Also, there's no reason to not do this if the other goals had been met.)

Items 2-4 are currency based but item 1 is not. Leveling to 100 does not compete with the other 3 goals.

Anyway, I think it's a good thing that meaningful goals compete with each other. If the game is too one-dimensional then it is easier to lose interest. Allowing different players to choose different objectives is a good thing.

I believe leveling is actually the biggest currency sink in the game at high levels so I would have to disagree with your assessment. Leveling most certainly competes with every other use of currency at high levels because you will spend all of your currency on maps in a futile attempt to sustain higher level maps.

This user do not have any character on top15000 in any ladder... makes sense why you don't understand this. I haven't played my marauder since mid february and he is still in the top 15k, haven't even played poe in the last month due to several issues I have with it at the moment.