Out of touch director refusing to acknowledge what everyone is thinking

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RamzaBehoulve#2076 wrote:

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DIOandTheWorld#7430 wrote:

Clearly, since my vision of an ARPG is one that is actually an ARPG. Its a genre in which you collect more powerful gear and level up powerful talent points to turn your character into a god. Its pretty simple. If your game instead is about timing dodge rolls every 0.5 seconds because not enough defenses exist in the game to mitigate damage from the hordes of enemies swarming you, you have failed to create an ARPG. Its just a janky rollslop.

The only way parry could be good in an ARPG is if it was a passive % chance every time you get hit, and when it activates you get a sound effect telling you you parried, so you can use an attack skill and you get the buffed stronger version of that attack. This active block and active dodge roll crap is pure ass and will never feel right in an isometric view hack n slash RPG.

Yes, parry is not ideal how it is currently. Maybe, they could do as you say with a passive value and it increases when you actively use it, to deal with a boss for exemple. I think Dodge roll is fine, although it can use some tweaks still as well.

However and it's the last time I'll say it, come down that hill on which you seem to stand as king nobody recognizes. You cannot continue to say only your opinion of what a ARPG should be is valid, you just look like a massive fool and is why you have some people mercilessly attacking your opinion, not because it's necessarily entirely wrong.

I personally don't disagree on all of it, I just disagree with wanting to completely remove new, fun mechanics in some situations because it doesn't fit your personal vision (which by the way, as much as you seem to have a difficult time to recognize, is a minority opinion at this time).

Its people who defend contradicting game mechanics being forced into an ARPG who look like fools. Not us actual fans of the genre. Dodge roll is absolutely not fine, it forces them to design the entire game around you needing to roll to not die, which is not ok in an ARPG. Players need to have full freedom to design their own defences and damage avoidance, if they want to make themselves just tanky enough to facetank hits, block chance so high you block nearly everything, high passive dodge chance, movement speed for better positioning, and/or variety of movement skills to escape. That feels infinitely better than being forced to use 1 common tool in all builds. Thats not what RPGs are about, and even Souls games give far more freedom to play the way you want than PoE2 does.

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DIOandTheWorld#7430 wrote:

"Just try one of the other 6 predesigned builds"
Thats your argument. Thats not a solution. Players should not be shoehorned into one very specific playstyle just based on the weapon they chose. You probably have never played another videogame before in your life if you think thats good or in any way defendable game design.
Doesn't matter if I pick Spear as the weapon I want my build to use, there should be a ton of freedom to make all kinds of different builds, its supposed to be an ARPG. But there is zero freedom in this game.

Im not shoehorned you into any build. I gave 6 example build instead said "just play different builds". I gave one tank melee, one caster, one that good last league, one that good this league, one that use the same weapon u r using now but range and one is melee. My point is that all example above do not require parry. You dont like parry. Great. There are many build that use the same ascendancy and the same weapon without parry. I enjoyed parry so i play my build you play your. What is the zero freedom you talk about. Dont like active block? Slap a shield on and use passive block.

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Urza_Mechwalker#7393 wrote:

There is ZERO need of timing. Stop trying to make dodge look somethign ti is not. You just ROLL AWAY, to get out of range of ALl attacks while having some extra I-frames.

Stop pretending that people DODGE by timing the attack of the monsters! There is ZERO reason to do that and if you think you need to do tha, it invalidates your whole right to say anything about the subject because you clearly do nto know how to use it!

You posted that as a reply to me replying to one of you shills saying that you have to time it and to stop spamming it, lmao. What is actually wrong with you.

You do have to time it in boss fights. And you are precisely forced to spam it when a horde rushes you. Neither is good gameplay. Obviously I understand the subject far better than you, you are only invested in defending this failed game design.

Just come to terms with the type of game you like, POE, Last Epoch etc. You would be much happier that way.

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DIOandTheWorld#7430 wrote:

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RamzaBehoulve#2076 wrote:

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DIOandTheWorld#7430 wrote:

Clearly, since my vision of an ARPG is one that is actually an ARPG. Its a genre in which you collect more powerful gear and level up powerful talent points to turn your character into a god. Its pretty simple. If your game instead is about timing dodge rolls every 0.5 seconds because not enough defenses exist in the game to mitigate damage from the hordes of enemies swarming you, you have failed to create an ARPG. Its just a janky rollslop.

The only way parry could be good in an ARPG is if it was a passive % chance every time you get hit, and when it activates you get a sound effect telling you you parried, so you can use an attack skill and you get the buffed stronger version of that attack. This active block and active dodge roll crap is pure ass and will never feel right in an isometric view hack n slash RPG.

Yes, parry is not ideal how it is currently. Maybe, they could do as you say with a passive value and it increases when you actively use it, to deal with a boss for exemple. I think Dodge roll is fine, although it can use some tweaks still as well.

However and it's the last time I'll say it, come down that hill on which you seem to stand as king nobody recognizes. You cannot continue to say only your opinion of what a ARPG should be is valid, you just look like a massive fool and is why you have some people mercilessly attacking your opinion, not because it's necessarily entirely wrong.

I personally don't disagree on all of it, I just disagree with wanting to completely remove new, fun mechanics in some situations because it doesn't fit your personal vision (which by the way, as much as you seem to have a difficult time to recognize, is a minority opinion at this time).

Its people who defend contradicting game mechanics being forced into an ARPG who look like fools. Not us actual fans of the genre. Dodge roll is absolutely not fine, it forces them to design the entire game around you needing to roll to not die, which is not ok in an ARPG. Players need to have full freedom to design their own defences and damage avoidance, if they want to make themselves just tanky enough to facetank hits, block chance so high you block nearly everything, high passive dodge chance, movement speed for better positioning, and/or variety of movement skills to escape. That feels infinitely better than being forced to use 1 common tool in all builds. Thats not what RPGs are about, and even Souls games give far more freedom to play the way you want than PoE2 does.

Ok another question why are people not allowed to enjoy a different twist on the ARPG genre? There are plenty of ARPG's out there hey people are always screaming for POE1? Why don't you play POE1 then?

I simply can not understand that people are so forced into a view on how stuff is "supposed" to work.
This would also mean every game trying something new is automatically bad and can not be enjoyed by others if its not at least 99% like all the other ones in the same genre.
They are trying to give arpgs a new twist and looking at the current state on how things are going it's one that works. It has issues in the current balance state but balancing is a veeeeery complicated topic and rome wasn't build in a day either.
But Looking at how people currently scream and insult the devs for doing what they are doing i doubt that anything can change the mindset but we always did it that way.

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DIOandTheWorld#7430 wrote:

Dodge roll and parry feel completely out of place and unfun in a game where you fight packs of 20-100 enemies at once. This is not a Souls game where you pull 1 mob at a time or maybe a few, and look carefully at what their next action is. Its impossible to do that with a huge monster pack and isometric camera view.

Jonathan needs to realize an ARPG just feels much better without any mechanics like this and if the player has nice movement speed and survival is dependent on:
- Good positioning and Movement Skills
- Defenses actually mattering, unlike in this game

Delete the dodge roll and parry from the game, put Quicksilver flasks in.

Parry is trash, but I like the dodge roll tbh.

But totally agree Jonathan is way way way out of touch with the player base.

Also I dunno about QS flasks as the flask system is really different, but how about a sprint ability on a cooldown so you can traverse clear areas quickly? We shouldn't need to use shield charge just to speed up back tracking, etc.

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Sanmie#9654 wrote:

You are not supposed to roll 24/7 from 50 enemies. And you don't have to except if you are in a bad spot.

Looking at your argument why is face tanking everything better than reactional gameplay?

Just standing in front of a boss holding a button or mashing a rotation in my opinion is pretty blunt. And by your arguing dodging, and parrying should not be in Dark Souls either because you are supposed to face tank everything.

I wonder how DS would have gone if this was the case.

It is a regular occurrence in this game that a large mob pack swarms you, especially in endgame maps, and all the player can do is spam roll because there is no time to attack at any point and there exist zero viable movement skills for these situations. Imagine unironically defending this. You would have to be a really shameless shill.

"Just standing in front of a boss holding a button or mashing a rotation in my opinion is pretty blunt."
It isn't like this for any build in PoE except the absolute most tankiest, insanely geared Juggernauts and even they have to avoid certain boss mechanics. What a dishonest argument. But it absolutely should be an option for tanky builds to reach a point like this. You must really hate RPGs to not want that possibility.

"dodging, and parrying should not be in Dark Souls either because you are supposed to face tank everything"
Yet another dishonest, terrible argument. Souls games are not the same genre as this. What works there does not work here and the same logic can not be applied to both. Also you absolutely can make builds in Souls games that can facetank everything... They are far more of RPGs than PoE2 currently is.

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DIOandTheWorld#7430 wrote:

Its people who defend contradicting game mechanics being forced into an ARPG who look like fools. Not us actual fans of the genre.

Hello, actual fan of the genre here. I disagree with every single remark you've made regarding Dodge Roll in this entire thread.

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Dodge roll is absolutely not fine, it forces them to design the entire game around you needing to roll to not die, which is not ok in an ARPG.

Ahh yes, I totally forgot about that rule. It's straight from The Book of Things That Are Okay in ARPGs written by the esteemed Realman B. Notfake.

Like can you try and be for real guy? It's your subjective personal opinion not an unwritten rule of the entire genre that we're all obligated to adhere to if we want to be "actual fans."

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Players need to have full freedom to design their own defences and damage avoidance, if they want to make themselves just tanky enough to facetank hits, block chance so high you block nearly everything, high passive dodge chance, movement speed for better positioning, and/or variety of movement skills to escape.

Each and every one of those is absolutely possible within PoE2 inclusive of Dodge Roll. Not only does Movement Speed increase the speed of Dodge Rolls, but there are a variety of passives and gems that modify the mechanics of Dodge Roll in various ways to change the role it plays in your personal defensive kit.

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Sirlickalot#7488 wrote:

Just come to terms with the type of game you like, POE, Last Epoch etc. You would be much happier that way.

What is actually wrong with you people? Don't you realize this game is supposed to be THAT TYPE of game too? And it is FAILING at it, so fans are trying to help the devs with feedback. What is actually going on in your minds to defend this dumpster fire of a game.

Hit the nail on the head OP the only place that type of combat works is in controlled environment IE bossfights. given the amount of enemies flooding you setting up combos for every interaction wont work and will feel extremely tedious

heres how a build in reality progresses

builder and spender...end goal is refine build to not need a spender

combo based..end goal would be to do the same damage without the combo

players in an arpg will always find a way to make that happen