Bans for "Unintended" Mechanics? Insane

OP is right.

1. This was not a bug or exploit. Though unintended, this is something that GGG themselves put in the game. GGG devs are the ones who didn't think it through. The interaction was obvious enough that people could assume the people who designed the game would have thought at least that far. All the players who used this to generate immense currency were only taking optimal advantage of the system GGG designed, something people have done without repercussions since PoE 1 first launched. The players in question did not go out of their way to take advantage of this interaction using any means typically prohibited by GGG. It was literally, just using the mechanic in the most optimal and obvious way available.

2. It should not be left to players to determine what is or isn't intended. That should not be a judgement players have to make regarding anything that can be done through normal means in a game. The onus should not be on players drawing that line in the sand, regardless of the impact. Players did not design the game, GGG did. GGG has never expressly forbidden the usage of intended mechanics in unintended but normal ways like this, only unintended mechanics in unintended ways. Even then, GGG has scarcely ever banned people for the latter; even in 0.1, the Temporalis dupers were not punished. "They should have just known" is not a valid argument for why GGG is punishing those players for a mistake GGG themselves made. Why didn't GGG know?

3. Banning players for reasons not expressly forbidden in the ToS when a certain person has blatantly gone against the ToS with no repercussions is fucked. Yeah, I know, its a whataboutism, but frankly a rather important one. Emon Lusk violated the ToS live, several times, and bragged about it. Ulon Mesk was not banned. Why is doing something that is by definition GGG's blatant mistake worth a ban, but not any of Mulonkes various offences?

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AIDA_TriEdge#4390 wrote:

Completely justified. How is this even a question?

That would be SO WRONG! You cannot design something with an error, flaw, or broken mechanic, then punish a player in what is basically a BETA test for DOING YOUR JOB IN FINDING IT, USING IT, AND MAKING IT PUBLIC! lmao.

IN FACT, almost every "BETA" or "EARLY ACCESS" is literally all about the community trying to find every flaw, bug, etc so that it can be corrected. THis would be like banning ppl who find a way to 1 shot a boss?! Really?!

This is like saying back when sunder charms came into d2r the first time and we figured out a hoarker barb had a guaranteed chance to get one if he used find item and dropped a magic GC. OF COURSE THAT PLAYER IS GOING TO SELL/TRADE AS MANY AS POSSIBLE! OF COURSE THAT PLAYER IS GUNNA MAKE VIDEOS AND SHOW THE EXPLOIT OR BUG.....

Which is worse, making something public so it can be addresed or being private about it and being like SEVERAL TOP MIRROR SERVICES on this website who keep it to themselves, but exploit it and the playerbase to make TONS of currency????

Yall sit here flaming the dude, but hes not advocating it, he is just saying players who find silly stuff in games should NEVER be banned, and all this talk of "WELL THIS IS THE PRICE FOR DECADES" WRONG. For decades, players have built OP builds, found item bugs, crafting bugs etc. and most of the time all it did was show the developers what to fix.....Not punish them for their lack of testing their own game!

i always enjoy these posts

"this very obviously unintended interaction that let people functionally print mirrors was totally intended and not a bug and GGG totally wanted people to print mirrors and a million invitations at no cost by abusing this interaction!"

naw fam

folks that abuse it knew it was not intended, or should have figured it out

GGG screwed up in shipping that interaction in the live build

but I'm a big, big fan of banning people who abuse the hell out of very obvious bugs/exploits

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Soulscar1#4896 wrote:

No unintended exploits were being abused

...was the ability to duplicate currency intended? No.

Did these players exploit that? Yes.

These are the clear and undisputed facts of the situation so guy you're really going to need to help me out because how you get from those absolutely inarguable facts to this claim without passing through the f'ing Twilight Zone is beyond me.

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Yall sit here flaming the dude, but hes not advocating it, he is just saying players who find silly stuff in games should NEVER be banned

Sure guy, you know all that "silly stuff" like deliberately duplicating enough currency to effectively ruin the in-game economy for the entirety of the League and dramatically curtailing the enjoyment of hundreds of thousands of players.

Totes just silly people doin' silly stuff.

This case affirms that very little, if not none, of employee in GGG actually play the game and testing it. At a certain point, someone in GGG propose the idea or design of this unique tablet, then the idea forwarded to whoever in charge to manage unique items design, then those people that manage unique item design do discussion with "QA" employee and said "yep, this looks cool and awesome. ship it to the upper management for approval stamp" , then the tablet goes into 0.2

Anyone that actually play the game, not just spawning with pre-built character and gears in some endgame maps, will immediately know this unique tablet is absurdly strong and will create economic imbalance if nothing is done to the tablets system or related atlas node mechanic. And seeing people leaning more into "Serves you right ha ! GGG numba one beby" sentiment, rather than keeping critical to the situation is alarming.

You might think that this kind of slip-up in development only happen to things that you don't care, but at some point it will happen to things that you care. All you have to do is wait.

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Kerchunk#7797 wrote:

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Soulscar1#4896 wrote:

No unintended exploits were being abused

...was the ability to duplicate currency intended? No.

Did these players exploit that? Yes.

These are the clear and undisputed facts of the situation so guy you're really going to need to help me out because how you get from those absolutely inarguable facts to this claim without passing through the f'ing Twilight Zone is beyond me.

"

Yall sit here flaming the dude, but hes not advocating it, he is just saying players who find silly stuff in games should NEVER be banned

Sure guy, you know all that "silly stuff" like deliberately duplicating enough currency to effectively ruin the in-game economy for the entirety of the League and dramatically curtailing the enjoyment of hundreds of thousands of players.

Totes just silly people doin' silly stuff.

It's hard to argue morality with someone.

Regardless. GGG did the right thing. Anyone arguing against it would probably pick money up off the ground that someone in front of them dropped, and pocket it. It's pointless. The only thing that has people re-thinking their stance on stuff like this, is the punishments/consequences that follow.

I applaud GGG for doing so.

So, question what build did you run at EA release endgame?

100% bet you ran something that did something "UNINTENDED" seeing how they nerfed even B+ TIER builds for being "UNINTENTIONALLY STRONGER THAN INTENDED".

And like 85% of the ppl posting in here, you probably copy/pasted what Streamers found and showed you was "OP AMAZING WARRIOR BUILD 1MIL DPS ZOMG"!

So, by your mentality, should you be banned for using a "BROKEN" gear/skill combo or any other normal testing find?

The issue here is the glitch existing, not the players who found it. THANK GOD THEY DID SO IT CAN BE FIXED!.....

I agree we do not want the economy to be ruined, but we also NEED players making this stuff public so that it can be fixed....

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ComradeAlis#9456 wrote:

1. This was not a bug or exploit. Though unintended, this is something that GGG themselves put in the game.

If GGG putting something in the game means it cannot be the target of exploits then nothing can ever be an exploit because everything that will ever be in the game will have been put there by GGG.

If your definition of exploit leads immediately to the conclusion that exploits don't exist then maybe you missed the mark dude.

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That should not be a judgement players have to make regarding anything that can be done through normal means in a game.

Yeah dude, just an immediate hard disagree. It is absolutely the responsibility of players to exercise good judgment in these situations. If you find an exploit, you report it. If you abuse it, you risk getting banned. Everyone who has ever played an online game understands this dynamic.

Yea i`m sorry but i kinda agree here.
They released a tablet with INFINITE rerolls, i don`t get how anyone wouldn`t ask if it`s possible to reduce the cost of those infinite rerolls.
And surprisingly there is a stat for that, now sure you can argue players should know better but this interaction is so painstakingly obvious that it`s hard to imagine it`s NOT intended. I mean come on...
The mistake here is ever releasing a tablet with infinite rerolls and having an affix that reduces the cost of said rerolls, so im kinda with OP here remove the currency (if that`s even possible though, i have my doubts and even if possible it will at this point probably hurt players who had nothing to do with the exploit [because they traded their items for exploited currency]) and fix it asap but banning in this instance seems a bit harsh.
Also there has been less severe action for way exploitier things.
The Temporalis at launch for example had no consequences whatsoever so how can you blame people now?

I semi agree with your stance on what the player base should assume or make judgement on as I for one just didn't bc it would take the fun outta the grind, however, As I also have been stating, I feel it was COMPLETELY ON GGG to handle it, and they didnt.

If you aren't going to hold them even 50% accountable, then I would also say that is a bad "judgement call" bc IT IS LITERALLY THEIR JOB to COMMUNICATE, UPDATE, REGULATE of which they did ZERO!

THey sat and watched week after week after week as the economy burned ,and did NOTHING!

NOW AFTER THE FACT, lmao, AFTER COMPLETE INACTION, lmao, they are gunna punish players???!?!

I agree if they found players who did it enmasse and sold for IRL or other EULA kinds of infractions, but the same could be said about TEMPEST FLURRY BUILDS FARMING CONTENT IN SECONDS!

You gunna ban every player who ran TEMPEST FLURRY MONK/MERC or SPARKMAGE because they had a clearly huge advantage on farming and kept "EXPLOITING" one shot mechanics?!?!

Tomato TOMAHTO my friend....