Do all the XP penalty complainers just body brigade through the game? Honest question

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adrenrocker#5143 wrote:

Also, honest question. Why the insistence that most people not reach 100? If its about achievement's or bragging rights shouldn't those be just for Hardcore anyway?

Why should the game be so easy that you can play it blindfolded? You have Diablo 4 for that, why aren't you playing that game? You can instantly just win if you pick their new Super Neon Colored Druid class. Just press buttons and you win and the game is over in less than 10 hours.

Games should not be challenging right? They should all be just extravagant DVD menus where you press buttons and colors come out on the screen telling you that you won.

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MEITTI#3999 wrote:

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Narnis#3028 wrote:

That is not an answer to any of the two question I asked.

But it is. Plenty of Souls- and Elden Ring players have lost their corpse runs on hard bosses and lost 100% of their xp. Do you want that to happen in PoE 2 as well?

Many lose it,but many not, cause they can just run back to the boss grab the pool and as long as they kill the boss they leave with nothing lost. Both way the chance is there and the first death is not a immidiate loss.
So no, it is not an answer to any of the questions I asked.
So only the xp loss makes the game non casual and challenging? Yes or No.
Are those games for babies and casuals just because you can get the xp back? Yes or No.

Rather simple.

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Narnis#3028 wrote:

Many lose it,but many not,

And many lose xp in PoE 2 but many not. So whats the issue again? Your strawman isn't working.

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MEITTI#3999 wrote:

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Narnis#3028 wrote:

Many lose it,but many not,

And many lose xp in PoE 2 but many not. So whats the issue again? Your strawman isn't working.

Except I did not stated that it is good or bad in poe 2 in this topic. I asked a simple question reacting to "You essentially want to make an already existing problem far worse and casualize the game so even a blind baby can play it."
Yet you are really incapable to answer them.

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Narnis#3028 wrote:

Except I did not stated that it is good or bad in poe 2 in this topic. I asked a simple question reacting to "You essentially want to make an already existing problem far worse and casualize the game so even a blind baby can play it."
Yet you are really incapable to answer them.

You didn't make a simple question, you made a comparison to Souls games and I pointed out that Souls games are far less forgiving when it comes to XP loss. Now you're backtracking and trying to make a nonsensical question instead.

XP loss in POE's case is there to balance the risk vs reward structure of the endgame system. If you remove it, theres no longer any risk to anything at all. People will kamikaze high tier maps all the time because its more worth dying constantly in high tier maps than grinding lower tier ones.

If you have a better solution for the problem of bad player behaviour, I'm all ears. In Souls games you can retrieve your body yes, but if you fail to do so you lose ALL XP. The XP penalty is still very much there and regularly punishes bad players trying to rush through the content.

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MEITTI#3999 wrote:

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adrenrocker#5143 wrote:

Also, honest question. Why the insistence that most people not reach 100? If its about achievement's or bragging rights shouldn't those be just for Hardcore anyway?

Why should the game be so easy that you can play it blindfolded? You have Diablo 4 for that, why aren't you playing that game? You can instantly just win if you pick their new Super Neon Colored Druid class. Just press buttons and you win and the game is over in less than 10 hours.

Games should not be challenging right? They should all be just extravagant DVD menus where you press buttons and colors come out on the screen telling you that you won.

The thing is that without the exp-loss. It still wouldn't be easy.

You'd still need a build that could clear juiced 15+ maps in a sufficient time.

Only difference is that the game wouldn't spit on you for enjoying the various league mechanics while levelling.

In PoE1 now the leveling process is, farm currency -> Pay for carry service to 100 -> Farm whatever you want.

All we who despise the exp loss want, is to make it so that that middle part isn't needed at all. If you can clear 15 maps and end-games bosses, you are perfectly able to clear to lvl 100. But the game demands that you level in the most boring way imaginable.

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mrfox123#7595 wrote:

In PoE1 now the leveling process is, farm currency -> Pay for carry service to 100 -> Farm whatever you want.

All we who despise the exp loss want, is to make it so that that middle part isn't needed at all. If you can clear 15 maps and end-games bosses, you are perfectly able to clear to lvl 100. But the game demands that you level in the most boring way imaginable.

Sure but if theres no XP penalty, then do you even really need carry services? In PoE 1 especially its not hard to make a glass cannon build, hard part is surviving all the coming damage. But if high tier map sustain is easy and theres no penalty for dying other than losing a map, then players don't need carry services, they can just kamikaze through a high tier map for as long as possible and still end up having more loot and xp than if they would try to play the game properly in lower tier maps.

If you don't lose money in a casino, who cares if your odds of winning are low? Just keep playing until you win because you lose nothing on loss. Theres no risk, only reward. Only way to balance no XP penalty would be to nerf map sustain drastically and thats not fun for anyone.

I've levelled characters to 100 in PoE 1 before. And that was before 3.0, back when exp curves were even worse.

And let me tell you: the 10% EXP penalty SUCKS. It's not about "playing an ARPG correctly" - you can totally do that and reach level 100. But it will still SUCK.

And what do I mean by sucking? Basically what another commenter pointed out: in the mid to late 90s you need to spend your whole level doing "safe" content and save the pinnacle/ultra juiced stuff to do when you level up and can ignore the 10% penalty. That gameplay loop SUCKS, and I really wish they changed this for PoE2.

I want to do content whenever I have access to it and have the will to attempt it. A 2.5% or lower EXP loss would encourage me to try out different kinds of content without the fear of losing a whole ass afternoon of grinding - I would just be losing an hour or so on the high 90s, and that feels fair.

A decreasing % would also work just fine, going from 10% at 89 to 1% in 99.

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MEITTI#3999 wrote:

You didn't make a simple question, you made a comparison to Souls games and I pointed out that Souls games are far less forgiving when it comes to XP loss. Now you're backtracking and trying to make a nonsensical question instead.

XP loss in POE's case is there to balance the risk vs reward structure of the endgame system. If you remove it, theres no longer any risk to anything at all. People will kamikaze high tier maps all the time because its more worth dying constantly in high tier maps than grinding lower tier ones.

If you have a better solution for the problem of bad player behaviour, I'm all ears. In Souls games you can retrieve your body yes, but if you fail to do so you lose ALL XP. The XP penalty is still very much there and regularly punishes bad players trying to rush through the content.

I did make a simple question reacting to what you said, which implied that in your world the only single challenge in poe 2 comes from the xp loss cause otherwise the game would be for blind babies.

The questions never changed from the start, so there is no backtracking and turning things into nonsensical questions.

Waystone lost if you die, any non collected loot in the heat of battle lost if you die, any bonus objective on the map node like ritual etc lost when you die.
Many says that 100 is just an acomplishment, it is pointless for builds and for anything else. People can just not care about lvl 100, or just level up and do your so called kamikaze high tier maps all the time between leveling sessions, or just farm the safe content until they level up.
Most causual would stop before reaching lvl 100 with or without the xp loss most likely anyway.
So how is this a good challenge, how is this the single point that can turn the game into something for causal blind babies?

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Narnis#3028 wrote:

I did make a simple question reacting to what you said, which implied that in your world the only single challenge in poe 2 comes from the xp loss cause otherwise the game would be for blind babies.

And that implication was wrong. You're fighting a strawman. I never said XP penalty is the only way to make games hard. So what is your proposition for a penalty on dying if its not XP then? Losing just a map is not enough. If the penalty for death is too low, then people don't care about dying and will absolutely 100% start just yoloing superjuiced high tier maps and dying constantly.