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This is a game, either you find the playstyle enjoyable or not. If you don't, then you don't play it.
I think this a fundamental misunderstanding between two types of gamers. Some find most of their enjoyment in the moment to moment gameplay, others in the long-term process of building a character that meets harder and harder challenges.
For the first crowd playing the game is supposed to be the fun. The immediate satisfaction of confronting a fight and beating it with skill and focus.
For the second crowd it's more about the process, the systems, the numbers, the build etc. Obviously it's not necesseraly 100% in each direction, but that's the general idea.
So for the first crowd, if the gameplay is good, it's okay if they don't advance that much or lose progress towards the endgame goal of building a killing machine, it's a secondary goal. Hell, may be the campaign is enough.
For the second crowd, even if they appreciate the gameplay, the primary goal is building power and advancing the character. So not advancing on that weighs much heavier.
All this is to say, you have your own subjective appreciation of your fun, but not everybody shares it... especially in the arpg space which is traditionnaly more oriented to the second crowd.
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Posted byMaldosam#3663on Jan 4, 2025, 5:52:52 PM
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And that implication was wrong. You're fighting a strawman. I never said XP penalty is the only way to make games hard. So what is your proposition for a penalty on dying if its not XP then? Losing just a map is not enough. If the penalty for death is too low, then people don't care about dying and will absolutely 100% start just yoloing superjuiced high tier maps and dying constantly.
Define constantly. Like juicing, getting in, dying after one pack ? Rince and repeat ?
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Posted byVinsdvalh#0247on Jan 4, 2025, 5:57:00 PM
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Loosing xp because you get one shot off screen is not hard, it's just bullshit and unfun.
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Posted byMankindz#5522on Jan 4, 2025, 5:57:46 PM
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Loosing xp because you get one shot off screen is not hard, it's just bullshit and unfun.
im on your side. the offscreen oneshot may should be fixed. if player is dying it has to be players fault. if its fixed and player death is player fault, xp loss is totally fine.
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Posted byPl4t1numX#4325on Jan 4, 2025, 5:59:34 PM
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And that implication was wrong. You're fighting a strawman. I never said XP penalty is the only way to make games hard. So what is your proposition for a penalty on dying if its not XP then? Losing just a map is not enough. If the penalty for death is too low, then people don't care about dying and will absolutely 100% start just yoloing superjuiced high tier maps and dying constantly.
Sigh...Again
"EXP loss prevents those players from reaching level 100 though. You essentially want to make an already existing problem far worse and casualize the game so even a blind baby can play it."
Its not about other games, its not about only xp penalty makes games hard in general or not, and yes you did not said that cause that was not even the question.
It is about poe 2 currently.And what you said implied that only the current xp penalty the only challenge in the game and without it is for blind babies. Full stop. I have no proposition, nor said xp penalty should be removed. It was about the blind babies part. So I questioned it while you refused to give a straight answer to it.
Strawman this ,strawman that, whiners this whiners that,vision this vision that, crying, tourists, stupid poe veterans, causuals,etc. Amazing how many of you throwing all these around just so to desperately ignore what the other person say without even thinking about it, or even thinking what you said at all.
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Posted byNarnis#3028on Jan 4, 2025, 6:00:15 PM
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If you're butting up against the XP penalty a lot: its because you're not playing the ARPG correctly. You're intentionally losing; Stop that. You'll enjoy the game a lot more if you stop intentionally losing.
Your instinct as a gamer playing a hack and slash ARPG when you die to often should be to go back to a previous or optional zone and farm a bit. Get some upgrades, maybe a level. Why do you think you're supposed to just steamroll ahead until the last boss dies or you reach a leveling equalibrium because you lose XP throwing your face at it faster than you gain XP? Thats not the intent of the game or genre.
Playing well in an ARPG mostly means killing things for loot until you're powerful and not dying. Unlike a souls game or a platformer or a strategy game, here the entire goal of the game is to outscale the content with a powerful character. NOT puzzle solving acumen, 4d chess, thinking 20 moves ahead, not precise flinch jumping skills at the pixel edge of a platform and not pattern recognition of what moves the enemy always does on repeat. (though ofc POE2 is weaving a bit of this in, again though its still mostly outscalable as it should be using the ARPG gameplay loop)
Imagine this mindset in a strategy game: I'll just keep using the same tactic and hope for a different result via some RNG; sounds like the definition of insanity right? Its sure as hell not gaming.
I know this seems obvious to some but the amount of complaining about XP penalty suggests that a LOT OF PEOPLE CLEARLY NEED TO HEAR IT.
Stop losing intentionally.
Do you feel smart?
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Posted byRastei#2657on Jan 4, 2025, 6:02:05 PM
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Define constantly. Like juicing, getting in, dying after one pack ? Rince and repeat ?
Assuming no XP penalty on death: Lets say a glass cannon yolo player dies 50% of the maps about 50% of Rares slain on average. As long as he's still grabbing stuff from the ground, he would still make more loot and xp than a more careful player clearing early maps.
Trash mobs tend to die fast regardless of build so how fast a blindfolded glass cannon yolo build dies depends on what blue monster mods and rare monster mods he encounters.
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Posted byMEITTI#3999on Jan 4, 2025, 6:02:57 PM
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Loosing xp because you get one shot off screen is not hard, it's just bullshit and unfun.
im on your side. the offscreen oneshot may should be fixed. if player is dying it has to be players fault. if its fixed and player death is player fault, xp loss is totally fine.
Same goes for getting one shot by well I don't know, because there isn't a death screen telling me what I died to.
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Posted byMankindz#5522on Jan 4, 2025, 6:03:26 PM
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And what you said implied that only the current xp penalty the only challenge in the game and without it is for blind babies. Full stop.
But it didn't imply that whatsoever. I think you may need to train your reading comprehension.
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Posted byMEITTI#3999on Jan 4, 2025, 6:04:23 PM
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If you're butting up against the XP penalty a lot: its because you're not playing the ARPG correctly. You're intentionally losing; Stop that. You'll enjoy the game a lot more if you stop intentionally losing.
Your instinct as a gamer playing a hack and slash ARPG when you die to often should be to go back to a previous or optional zone and farm a bit. Get some upgrades, maybe a level. Why do you think you're supposed to just steamroll ahead until the last boss dies or you reach a leveling equalibrium because you lose XP throwing your face at it faster than you gain XP? Thats not the intent of the game or genre.
Playing well in an ARPG mostly means killing things for loot until you're powerful and not dying. Unlike a souls game or a platformer or a strategy game, here the entire goal of the game is to outscale the content with a powerful character. NOT puzzle solving acumen, 4d chess, thinking 20 moves ahead, not precise flinch jumping skills at the pixel edge of a platform and not pattern recognition of what moves the enemy always does on repeat. (though ofc POE2 is weaving a bit of this in, again though its still mostly outscalable as it should be using the ARPG gameplay loop)
Imagine this mindset in a strategy game: I'll just keep using the same tactic and hope for a different result via some RNG; sounds like the definition of insanity right? Its sure as hell not gaming.
I know this seems obvious to some but the amount of complaining about XP penalty suggests that a LOT OF PEOPLE CLEARLY NEED TO HEAR IT.
Stop losing intentionally.
This reads like you're a player who enjoys hardcore and is fine dumping hours into just kinda farming up rather than a traditional softcore player that wants to blast and make currency.
The xp penalty is annoying. That's all there is to it. You level so excessively slowly, and you WILL die unless you are making "never die" the focus of your build.
Not everyone enjoys that.
I am not 100% convinced the xp penalty should be removed, but GGG sucks in general at making late game leveling feel good so I am open to changes.
Saying "if you die you're doing it wrong" is just a stupid position to take as many people are enjoying the game with a higher risk playstyle and feel they are being overly punished for trying to enjoy pushing the limits of their build.
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Posted byGkek#1581on Jan 4, 2025, 6:08:38 PM
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