Do all the XP penalty complainers just body brigade through the game? Honest question
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I mean I dont agree with alzerhed on a lot of things, a lot really. Dont even agree on some of the things they put in their OP on what dying means. It doesnt always mean gear and needing to farm safety zones.
But the core exp loss issues I do agree with. And I think people expect a bit too much safety in a game. This is supposed to be harder than its previous version (POE1) Its meant to be slower, and more engaging gameplay.* As such you should be more careful, take things slower, and be okay with it not being as quick or safe as POE1. We dont have many of the defenses let alone the spike damage guards (molten shell, immortal call, steel skin...) and people need to realize this before just rushing in *(Hopefuly the devs address some of the crazy zoom builds we have seen come out, sure they will) Mash the clean
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So, what if your PC crashes and you die in a map?
What if you get one-shotted from off-screen? What if you die to a bullshit mechanic? You're not thinking correctly. GGG needs to remove everything that is punishing until they fix everything that's wrong with the endgame. 9/10 times, it's the game's fault. |
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" My only statement to this. Is. If the game was meant to be harder. Make it harder. XP loss on death is a difficulty mechanic, but as far as they go. The easiest, and cheapest to implement. GGG could do much better. Why not ask for better? |
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" Don't agree with this, almost dieing using all your pots and narrowly surviving, having tense moments where the outcome is uncertain all communicate that something challenging happened and ideally in a perfect world games would all be balanced this well. Its of course hard to achieve that, but some of the best all time games get pretty close. For your statement to be accurate the only time anyone in HC would feel challenged is when they just lost their character and I can tell you thats not remotely true. " I don't agree with this statement either. First of all even the three games you list aren't completely free of consequences for death, Meat boy (IIRC) as with most sprinting platformers since Sonic; you go back to the start of a level or checkpoint which is usually a fair chunk of obstacles you have to re-do and Souls like games have ... souls and starting from your campfire mechanics almost all of them require run backs. But who cares: a metric fuck ton of the best games ever made are chock full of death consequences. I started listing great games with harsh penalties like corpse runs in medium core Terraria, Diablo, Valheim and had to stop myself, probably quicker to think of great games that have light consequences.. All I can think of is save reload strategy games like Civ but then even strategy games have X-com and Iron man modes usually these days. From Iron man runs to corpse runs, many all time classics have insanely harsh lose conditions. Ghost and Goblins, Boshy, Getting Over it. A million and one "game over" screens from Arcade coin ops to Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads. Every rogue-like/lite from Rogue to Zelda and on up. Notice how many notoriously difficult games are considered all time classics? And all of them do difficult in different ways. Tbh the only great games I can think of that have almost no punishment for losing are all cozy games. Anyway Just so happens that in a game with gear and levels you've got the options you've got, and I'm betting modern day gamers would just shit themselves if POE2 put corpse runs in. I'd fuckin love it. Some of my all time favorite gaming moments are corpse runs co-op with friends and family. Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years. |
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" 1. If your pc crashes so often that losing 10% exp everytime it does is a big deal, the problem is your computer not the system in the game. 2. If you get one-shotted off-screen then its your fault. You are somewhere your not supposed to be, again its your fault not the system in the game. 3. What bullshit mechanic? Please be specific cause im 99% sure the answer is gonna be its something your doing wrong. And even if for the sake of argument its not, then the problem is that there is a mechanic they need to fix, not that the xp penalty is bad. None of your arguments are relevant to the xp penalty mechanic. And I guarantee you 99/100 times youved died in the game it was your own fault. Your just not good enough at the game to realize Last edited by Nyon#6673 on Jan 6, 2025, 11:13:07 PM
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" The point he's trying to make is that you need to be coming close to death, or actually dying for the content to be considered challenging. If you're going 7, 8, 9 levels like some people are bragging about on the forums. Then the content is just simply too easy. If you can just build to avoid the mechanic. And most people will do so. Then, the mechanic isn't doing what they want. And he wasn't saying those games didn't have punishments. He was pointing to the fact that the 'punishments' are quite small, because the challenge in the game is quite high. If you die in meatboy, you lose 20 seconds and you can try again. Same goes for many of the other games. Elden Ring wants you to overcome REALLY difficult bosses, through repetition, trial and error. And it still takes you a lot of time. There's no need to kick someone in the nuts and then curbstomp their face. If the game had sufficient challenge elsewhere. XP Loss on death is telling you that this game needs work. Not that the mechanic should stay. It's the easiest, cheapest, and lamest way to implement a 'challenge'. And it's super frustrating for a lot of players. I think many of them would rather better work be put into the game. Last edited by Akedomo#3573 on Jan 6, 2025, 11:12:05 PM
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I think starting back at the start of the level and 10% XP are actually fairly similar punishments. Re-spawn timer in Terraria boss fights, then needing to run (teleport is disabled) all the way back or restart the boss from scratch. Going back to the last campfire in souls-likes might be the most cozy death penalty in a hard game but those games are super fuckin easy for people with good pattern memory. Restarting with all your perks in rogue-lites, permanently unlocking perks in survivor-likes but starting from the begining of the level.
I think the cure for the 10% XP loss disease might not be what the people who are complaining the loudest really want. Just sayin' be careful what you wish for. Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years. |
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" You know what would be like starting back at the start of the level? Just reset the boss/map when you die. |
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Bottom line:
The point at which you quit because you've hit a wall where you can't progress is different for everyone, but only a few very masochistic few will slog onward. The rest of people will trigger the "fuck it, I quit" mechanic that's unique to GGG games because of their inexplicable clinging to penalizing players for playing the game. That's the problem. Visit my Steam profile here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheBaconOverlord/
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" This just doesn't work in a game where they've decided to limit your access to "juiced" content and such. Now you've turned a death penalty into a way to re-farm your most efficient content. I'm not a fan of GGG turning content into a valuable resource BTW but its the way they've gone and they don't seem willing to move away from it. One of the downsides to this choice is that it makes "micromanagement" of every map far more impactful thus generally required. Among other negative aspects (like incentivizing players to sell their content instead of run it) Personally I dislike this design choice in large part because it incentivizes fiddling with maps, which is extremely "gamey" in the meta game sense, and counter to thematic or immersive gameplay IMO. Pandering to players who don't want consequences for their mistakes is a perfect description of what went fundamentally wrong with D3 and 4.
If they wanted mindless mobile game time waster gameplay they sure did make some perplexing choices and marketing statements for 6 fucking years. |
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