GGG please do not listen to these people

"

Warrax#2850 wrote:

You dont have to be rude, I do read and I think this is RNG. Rarity didn't increase drop rate of orbs in PoE1 and MF didn't increase drop rate of runes in Diablo 2 so to say that rarity affect orb drop rates please show us some proof, not just one situation where you suddently got 5 divine orbs.

Sorry bro....its a 100% proven fact. It has been tested, tested, and tested again over 100s, 1000s of maps across multiple streamers and degenerates. Magic Find in PoE 2 applies to currency drops. This is an undisputable fact.

I disagree with many of the OPs points, as well as his conclusions. Magic Find affecting currency absolutely affects inflation. The more high-level orbs that drop overall, the less valuable they become. This is especially true if the rate of orb drop is greater than the rate of orb loss due to crafting, which it currently is by an astronomical margin.

Your point of "rarity tied to difficulty" is just....off. Not totally wrong, but not right either. The POINT of this particular argument is that someone can slap on magic find gear, drop 5+ tiers in difficulty, and get the same or more loot than someone remaining at that upper tier. It really has nothing to do with juice, except that juicing exacerbates the problem because "juicing" is overall the same across ANY difficulty (adding a TON of monsters).

Gearing for MF: this is the biggest problem, and pretty much an unsolvable problem as long as it exists in its current form. Any build that can easily do away with mods on gear will naturally be better suited to MF. Throw in power on top of that and the gap increases exponentially. This is the problem that PoE 1 has, and it is now carried over and multiplied in PoE 2 now that mf affects orbs. Plus....its just not a great way to think about gearing a character up. We should WANT to grow in power and push the upper limits, not settle at a lesser power level, but with higher mf. Sure...you can still choose to push the upper limits if you want, but you are objectively playing the game wrong at that point, if you ever want to craft or buy better items.

If I were to list my top 3 problems (in order of importance, top being MOST important):
1) Endgame, just....everything about it. But GGG already knows this. It was a hasty job and its the most "incomplete" part of the game currently

2) Magic Find: the scope of this issue is astronomical for anyone involved in trade. SSF...its awesome!

3) Recovering the "choice" that made PoE 1 so incredible: the current skill system and choices, jewellers orb rarity, the passive tree, its all less than it was in PoE 1. Support gem limitations, skill weapon limitations, passive tree generic-ness, being unable to legitimately have multiple 6L (as advertised pre-launch)....it makes for a less replayable, less creative experience. This is lower on my list because this will naturally get better as more skills and supports are added. But they REALLY need to take a good hard look at the skill/support limits they set.

"

It was in Poe1 for 10+ years and it was fine until affliction. Its fine in PoE2 because its been blown way out of proportion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-w6b85afLA&t=768s
But again, all I see are wholesale claims that magic find is the cause of every ill in history. I mean hell people are blaming the hacking epidemic on fuckin magic find. Yall need to take a step back and explain why instead of just creating a lynch mob over a stat that doesnt have half the impact as juiced t15 breaches

Magic Find in PoE1 had pros and cons. As the game got bigger and both the different sources of loot became larger along with the playerbase the cons grew to be bigger than the pros as affiliate consequence. Magic Find is completely fine in a vacuum, but PoE is simply not a vacuum.

I don't see magic find as the "cause of every ill in history" myself, but some people have definitely over-exaggerated how bad it is just like people do with every problematic thing. I do believe magic find is a large problem for PoE2 however, since it causes a lot of messy issues that branch into almost every aspect of the game's loot and progression systems.

While it would take an entire essay of a post to cover everything Magic Find interacts with (normally for the worse), I do have another post I made talking about how it's attached to the gear progression system:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3660072

"

DarkLordOdeo#6686 wrote:

It was in Poe1 for 10+ years and it was fine until affliction.

This is just plain NOT true. It was WORST in affliction, but it has not been fine for a very long time. Ever hear of IIQ support gem? Removed. IIQ mods on helms and other gear? removed. Bisco's Collar on release? game shattering. Levels of IIR/IIQ throughout the years? nerfed. The big 3.14 full wipe? mf played a big hand in that. So many big events in PoE 1 history were shaped (negatively) by runaway mf.

It has been a large problem in PoE for MANY years. It is true though that it kept getting worse and worse....until Affliction brought it to the top. But that wasn't really even magic find's fault: that was because of the spire interaction "bug" allowing for near-unlimited monster spawns. And the absolutely absurd affliction multipliers themselves.

PoE, because it was around for so long, just grew to somewhat "accept" the fact that mf was going nowhere. After 10+ years of fighting it, GGG made it clear they weren't removing it. That's all it is.....complacency. Not that it ever stopped or wasn't a problem. GGG just failed to rip the problem out by the root for 12 years, and continuously tried (and failed) to balance AROUND it. Now we see the exact same issues in POE 2, even worse because it affects currency directly.

They have the chance now, one month into the brand new game, to rip out the root of the problem and balance solely around content. No more haves and have nots EVER AGAIN, except for build strength and potentially imbalanced single mechanics.

Remove it entirely, see what happens. Worst case scenario? They add it back in later.

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DarkLordOdeo#6686 wrote:

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Karishin#7986 wrote:

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DarkLordOdeo#6686 wrote:

How does this affect you?

Drops are balanced around MF, he cant trade so he is hindered by drops balanced by MF.

HC = Hard core
SSF = Solo self found
I hate to say it but PoE was never balanced around either of those.
All damage being spike damage/degen floors is antithetical to hardcore, making PoE hardcore an even more masochistic endvour
and Solo self found has always been a gimmick that the devs dont care to balance. Without MF his drops wont be better because the avenues that PoE1 had to make SSF less of a slog arent in this game yet.

The game is and was always balanced around HC SSF actually. The base game is meant to be playable and completable solo, and it is. People really always misunderstand the intention the devs have behind the ability to trade. By any standards you can get all the gear you need and finish everything in HC SSF.

The problem with rarity is that it only benefits a small select group of power gamers who use it to "win" at the market. In reality GGG has always had a good eye for small details that players don't understand that make the game feel better, such as an xp penalty or having to play through the campaign.

However rarity has the complete opposite effect. The very existence of rarity begs the question of how much am i wasting my time farming with 0 rarity? It makes just playing the game and gearing your character for finishing higher difficulties tainted by the question of "do i need rarity?" "am i not getting any drops because of rarity?". It's the most toxic mechanic in the game.

Furthermore the game is designed to be about finding better gear to progress, yet rarity is completely antithetical to the core design philosophy of the game. It forces you to sacrifice your characters power just to farm, which doesn't even make any sense because the point is to get a better character and defeat the end game challenges.

It's also completely impossible to balance. It's either worthless or invaluable.

"

MF is broken because it is a stat on gear and if you don't have it you are missing out (This is not FOMO it is literally a statistic that makes more gear drop so ya know, getting less items if you don't have it). The MF gear price has already inflated to beyong reasonable means, making it even more difficult to achieve. The stat is boring and entices you to play an "Efficient" MF toon to get the best results. There is no reward vs cost because the reward far outways the cost that it becomes a null point.

https://www.pathofexile.com/trade2/search/poe2/Standard/LXLlkRXCn
Its not inflated to being unaccessable, inflation as a whole has been overblown because the trade api still thinks divines = 8 ex
and the video in my latest post showed that MF doesnt hold a candle to doing juiced content. Removing MF wont make breach anyless profitable.

"

You make it sound like you only get an increase in rarity if you are doing 8 affix corrupted t18 maps, and until that point your drop rate stays the same.

Rarity based on content difficulty is a scale, it will increase slightly each time you go up a tier of difficulty. This is how it should be done. As you get are able to clear harder content your drop rates increase to allow you to purchase/create the more expensive gear.

Aside fron this is how MF should work, you either gear to do harder content or gear to blow through low content. PoE has always had this dichotomy, not every build needs to be a master of all trades.

"

I agree life builds are in a terrible spot at the moment. Partly because ES is far too strong and partly because the intention of the devs was to have a slower more deliberate play style which fell flat on its face once you hit high end maps and everything reverted back to super speed.

I would like to see them tone the gameplay down and for it to be the way it was INTENDED from the beginning. And then possibly nerf ES a little bit. ES needs to get more actually numbers than life as it is harder to layer a defensive stat behind it.

I also wanna add, making chaos damage not ignore ES was the most mindboggling thing in the world, unless you went CI having 8 million ES meant nothing if all that was pierced by a chaos archer.

"

So I sorta agree with you. Sekhemas is not so bad once you use the honor resistence relics and you are appropriately geared for the level of content.

Remember in PoE 1 Uber lab was actually HARD and it took FOREVER to uncover it the first time. It is not that difficult to get the first 6 ascendancy points, similar to PoE 1 and the last 2 are difficult. The last 2 ascendancy points are arguably more accessable than PoE 1 was.

After some thought, and with us missing I think 2 more types, it might be better once the other trials are released, but as it stands it is a crap shoot on weather you get a good run or wait and buy honour res/merchant relics

"

So the 1 death per map thing IS annoying but I would like to see it changed like this.

1 death for non boss maps - the main issue here is fixing the of screen 1 shots from corpse exploders and "Slowing the game down" like they intended.

3 Deaths per boss map/pinnacle/citadel - Activated for the BOSS ONLY. So change the way boss maps work. You cannot engage the boss until all the rares are dead, once rares are dead boss room opens and you have 3 attempts at it.

I do hope they do something, aside from losing a map to lag spikes, its a bit nonsensical that we have PoE1 mapping with PoE2 exiles that cant react properly.
(kinda why spark/stormweaver is king atm, theyre just poe1 builds)

"

I agree I like determinastic crafting also and I miss being able to fill holes with the workbench.

And scours, let me get bases off the ground please

"

Magic Find in PoE1 had pros and cons. As the game got bigger and both the different sources of loot became larger along with the playerbase the cons grew to be bigger than the pros as affiliate consequence. Magic Find is completely fine in a vacuum, but PoE is simply not a vacuum.

I don't see magic find as the "cause of every ill in history" myself, but some people have definitely over-exaggerated how bad it is just like people do with every problematic thing. I do believe magic find is a large problem for PoE2 however, since it causes a lot of messy issues that branch into almost every aspect of the game's loot and progression systems.

While it would take an entire essay of a post to cover everything Magic Find interacts with (normally for the worse), I do have another post I made talking about how it's attached to the gear progression system:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3660072

I'll give it a read, again MF was in poe1 but it was far from the best option to make "huge gains" compared to league mechanics, Poe2 doesnt have that so alot of people dont understand the difference in "its the best" and "its the best, right now"

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

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DarkLordOdeo#6686 wrote:

It was in Poe1 for 10+ years and it was fine until affliction.

This is just plain NOT true. It was WORST in affliction, but it has not been fine for a very long time. Ever hear of IIQ support gem? Removed. IIQ mods on helms and other gear? removed. Levels of IIR/IIQ throughout the years? nerfed. The big 3.14 full wipe? mf played a big hand in that. So many big events in PoE 1 history were shaped (negatively) by runaway mf.

It has been a large problem in PoE for MANY years. It is true though that it kept getting worse and worse....until Affliction brought it to the top. But that wasn't really even magic find's fault: that was because of the spire interaction "bug" allowing for near-unlimited monster spawns. And the absolutely absurd affliction multipliers themselves.

PoE, because it was around for so long, just grew to somewhat "accept" the fact that mf was going nowhere. After 10+ years of fighting it, GGG made it clear they weren't removing it. That's all it is.....complacency. Not that it ever stopped or wasn't a problem.

No one
and I repeat no one complained about MF windripper builds, the thread is still on the fourms go read it. Do not tell me people always hated MF that is blatantly false.

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Kashou#2868 wrote:

The game is and was always balanced around HC SSF actually. The base game is meant to be playable and completable solo, and it is. People really always misunderstand the intention the devs have behind the ability to trade. By any standards you can get all the gear you need and finish everything in HC SSF.

SSF wasnt in the original game, trade has always been the mode of getting gear in this game, they didnt like people deterministically farming or crafting their gear. Get outta here with this revisionist shit
The game cant be balanced around one mode of play, especially not hardcore which necessitates different strategies to achieve goals.

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Kashou#2868 wrote:

The problem with rarity is that it only benefits a small select group of power gamers who use it to "win" at the market. In reality GGG has always had a good eye for small details that players don't understand that make the game feel better, such as an xp penalty or having to play through the campaign.

It doesnt, check the trade link I made (I know you dont trade but you seem to want to wiagh in on trade) its not impossible to get into, some classes have it easier (this is normal and how you keep it balanced.) Powergamers/Grind Guilds will be fine with or without it, but solo players will only suffer cause the option to use MF is removed.

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Kashou#2868 wrote:

However rarity has the complete opposite effect. The very existence of rarity begs the question of how much am i wasting my time farming with 0 rarity? It makes just playing the game and gearing your character for finishing higher difficulties tainted by the question of "do i need rarity?" "am i not getting any drops because of rarity?". It's the most toxic mechanic in the game.

I've been on the fullest spectrum of MF, from 0 to 200 to 100 and MY BIGGEST gains was using a different atlas tree over changing my rarity. Its overblown how much of an affect it has on drops, full stop. You worrying about "wasting time" is a you problem? Sorry I dont see how that affects others or why a whole mechanic needs to be removed.

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Kashou#2868 wrote:

Furthermore the game is designed to be about finding better gear to progress, yet rarity is completely antithetical to the core design philosophy of the game. It forces you to sacrifice your characters power just to farm, which doesn't even make any sense because the point is to get a better character and defeat the end game challenges.
It's also completely impossible to balance. It's either worthless or invaluable.

Its never been worthless, the worth was just different then getting boss/chase uniques.
The point of Arpgs are to farm, I hate to brake it to you. MF is just a different flavour of farming, if your goal is to kill the big bad then log off then do that, MF isnt preventing you from doing so. I dont see how this tracks since you just said you felt you were wasting time farming but the point is just to kill bosses?

No, GGG please listen to the valuable feedback, the game can be a lot better with just a few adjustments! Thanks!

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Sohta#4834 wrote:

No, GGG please listen to the valuable feedback, the game can be a lot better with just a few adjustments! Thanks!

"Ugg, remove magic find"
Why
"Just do it lawl"
Thats not "valuable feedback"
THis is a forum not reddit/twitter, please expect to have discussions on topics and not shout canards into the aether

A simple nerf to MF would be for it to not affect currency or half its percentage for currency.

Item Rarity is what makes SSF so good right now.
You would be killing a whole community by removing it.

I mean your title is already dismissive already. Why bother reading the rest.