Floored by the power spike of TRADING. This will ruin the game.

"

Wondahbread#4041 wrote:

The main issue right now is there is no way to build tanky enough to guarantee survival in t15 maps. If they are going to enforce this 1 portal per map rule they need to allow players to feel safe juicing their maps to the fullest knowing they cannot die unless they really mess up. As it stands you can be killed by 2-3 hits from White mobs

do they? should pushing the "fullest" juice something that you can do without any real risk?


i think we could make a strong argument that risk vs reward should be a thing.

If streamers would cater more to new players, giving them insights on game mechanics and, which is apparently needed - game modes, forums would be a nicer place. Instead we get boring meta build pushing and extremely bad takes from them. Rant over.

Anyway OP, go play SSF, see if it is for you. Post closed :)

A lot of people mentioned "Diablo 2 also has trade."

Let me elaborate here a bit on it:

First of all in Diablo 2 when it came out, trading was feeling more like an opportunity and wasn't a straight out buy/sell transaction like here.

To trade in a first place you actually had to have decent items to show for first. Players mostly exchanged for items and sometimes runes/jewels on higher tier but all in all trade there was more complex. And trading actually felt rewarding and social like, because it was mostly an opportunity, not a grind for "trade gold". You would show everything you have found so far and hope a seller picks some items that he finds useful for the item he has. Sometimes it was even 3 items for 1 item exchange.

In Path of Exile trading feels like a failure of not being able to get good rolls on your crafting, not getting enough currency and overall being stuck in your progress. Its made of just "grinding popular trade currency" and browsing for items like on Amazon for cheapeast price. You know you can get what you need in a matter of "search on website" feature. And reason why it feels bad as oppose to Diablo 2 is exactly that feeling of failure on not being able to progress any other way.

SSF exist but not every build can make it there. It's made for a specific builds that can work with minimal or no investment mostly and require huge knowledge of "metas" and where to exactly put your points. Not everyone likes it anymore. Players want to be able to progress any build they decided on as long as points and stats they put on, made sense to their build, but a lot of times its just never enough. We end up min/max stats just to see that progress.

So all in all:

Diablo 2 trading at its release was an opportunity for a player to exchange the loot one doesn't need, with someone who might actually find it useful. There was no universal currency. It was haggling with your finds. It felt good, rewarding and social. And game itself didn't require you to min/max in order to make it through base game. Reruning maps, bosses was something normal and any decent item might have had way to end up in exchange.

Path of Exile trading is an aftermath of being extremely unlucky with your drops, crafting rolls, game rng, pushing most of us to the website just to not be stuck in same grind over and over again. Some like it because its an easy way to gear up. You just grind some currency, its universal, find cheapeast price, get stats you desire in one click and done. Efortless.

But for some of us ending up with a thought: "I can't find anything and I'm stuck. I need to trade" feels just bad and unrewarding. Trading should be something optional, not necessary. The only reason why trading is so big here is because crafting drains in the end more resources than giving away those reasources for the item. It should always be the other way around.

In the end Trading itself won't ruin the game. What will ruin the game is a struggle of the player on trying to get his own gear together, failing and being forced to trade in order to progress.

PoE 2 received much bigger community, made of all types of players. Its no longer just your usual poe vets and people who are just used with how gearing up goes. Needing to trade feels like "only way out".

"

Unik0rnu#9262 wrote:

Diablo 2 trading at its release was an opportunity for a player to exchange the loot one doesn't need, with someone who might actually find it useful. There was no universal currency. It was haggling with your finds. It felt good, rewarding and social. And game itself didn't require you to min/max in order to make it through base game.

are you saying you struggle to make it through the base game in poe1 without trading and/or min maxing?



i feel like with very little effort i can stomp the poe1 campaign with any character and essentially any main skill self found after spending 2 minutes making up a tree on the fly.




everything after the campaign is content diablo 2 didnt even have.

Reading some of the posts, i get the fear that devs balance the game based on people playing with trading.
Which is not a good way to balance the game and normal experience.

I just hope that will not be the case.

I also doubt they are brave enough to touch much of the currency to balance out the market itself, so that you don't buy those hard work rare items for a whatever-drop.

"

Unik0rnu#9262 wrote:

A lot of people mentioned "Diablo 2 also has trade."

Let me elaborate here a bit on it:

First of all in Diablo 2 when it came out, trading was feeling more like an opportunity and wasn't a straight out buy/sell transaction like here.

To trade in a first place you actually had to have decent items to show for first. Players mostly exchanged for items and sometimes runes/jewels on higher tier but all in all trade there was more complex. And trading actually felt rewarding and social like, because it was mostly an opportunity, not a grind for "trade gold". You would show everything you have found so far and hope a seller picks some items that he finds useful for the item he has. Sometimes it was even 3 items for 1 item exchange.

Correct me if memory serves me wrong but the D2 trading currency was Stone of Jordans and later on rare runes. Doesnt really seem that much different from poe, actually poe trading seems better since the trade currency has uses where as in D2 you wouldnt ever need more than 2 soj except for trading.

Knowing how much trading impacts my gameplay in poe 1, I still havent interacted with poe 2 trading at all. It completely changes the game. Seeing currency not as crafting supplies but just currency. Currency/h becomes the main goal. That being said its a real pain to just get life + 2 res naturally in this game. Atleast bring back the crafting bench for leveling. The only way to truly skip rng is to trade, which to me makes it even more powerful than in poe 1.

I would love a true SSF league with different balancing. Increased currency drop rates would already make it more enjoyable. I still want coop to be a thing though so not sure how to fix that. Maybe so that only guild members can trade and you cant changed guild once youve joined one.

"

Snorkle_uk#0761 wrote:

YOU might not find that fun, YOU are not everyone. stop projecting yourself onto other people.

100% this.

Peoples worlds are so small that they can't fathom to understand that not everything is made to be catered to them.

There are plenty of other options out there or you can just adjust how you play to fit it to your liking if the way trading is, isn't something you find beneficial.

Think the Trading is OP? Just restrict yourself to buying if you are absolutely stuck and don't interact with it further than that.
It's not that hard.
I don't see how blasters making ingame currency is affecting your own gameplay.

Widen your world and stop projecting.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

The problem that GGG is trying to address with POE 2 is a vocal player base accustomed to easy mode mechanics that wants an easy mode button.

Man, GGG isn't trying to address any player base of any vocal magnitude. Trading has been with the game since POE1 beta. The only recent addition was currency exchange, and that's really just a convenience feature. In trade leagues (yes, they are also colloquially called trade leagues) you can trade. It's that simple. If you don't want to trade, you can just opt not to do it.

From where I'm sitting, it is you being extremely vocal about something that only you seem to be seeing as a problem. In fact, you appear to be making a problem just for the sake of making it a problem, when you could just as easily sidestep said problem through the many ways people have suggested.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

No one is arguing against my point that trade isn't a horrible power spike that destroys the game loop.

There's nothing to argue. Your opinion is your own and nobody is required to convince you that you are wrong. This however does not make you right either. Think about that a bit.

"

crazyfingers619#3901 wrote:

You all just want your easy mode button that ruins the experience.

You know nothing, John Snow. How about you play the game a big, get a few achievements under your belt and once you have that, we can talk about the game being too easy.

Last, but not least:
This is a beta. Version number is 0.1.x for Sin's sake. People are expected to test. There will be quite a lot of changes until this gets to the 1.0 state. I imagine the game will get easier or maybe harder. Though frankly I expect it'll get easier, as for someone who has sunk 3k+ hours into POE1, I can tell you, POE2 is no slouch in the difficulty department and if I find it hard, then real newcomers to the game will find it punishingly hard.

I can only suggest you take a step back and instead of complaining, you "suggest". Respectfully and keeping in mind, that there is a decade long history behind the game already and a very successful history at that. Just in case you would believe that you automatically know what's best for the game. :)

why the hell did it post twice.

Oh well.